• MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
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    5 months ago

    I took economics in my college days and this is a very stark example of people who are bad at economics.

    Everything costs money. You can relate everything to a dollar amount in business. From labor, to time spent, to equipment and it’s use, the cost of fuel for transportation etc. Knowing the full cost of selling an item including the time spent making it, the supplies used, the failure rate where you need to replace it at no cost to the customer, everything should be able to be factored in. From there you can set the cost of something, taking the overall price for all involved aspects of creating the thing, and adding some profit margin.

    Spending a dollar to make a dime is adequate. If your economic costs are a dollar and you sell the thing for $1.10 then you make money. Sell enough and that’s business.

    With all that being said, the cost of transit fares should be set with the expectation that there will be unavoidable times where people will ride for free. Whether that’s because of gate jumping, or other fare avoidance, or that someone simply entered into the system in an unexpected way that bypassed the fare system, or if it’s simply that a fare was given out as courtesy, it’s all baked into the fares that everyone pays.

    The only time chasing down the people intentionally skipping their fare, makes any sense is if that amount of loss because of fare skipping is significantly above the expected losses from fare skipping. Googling it, the NYC transit system has a gross revenue around 5.8 billion dollars. Which means the amount of revenue to be gained by chasing down ~$100k in losses is around 0.0017%

    If, the process of chasing down the fares costs over 1000% more than the fares are worth to do it, then the simple answer is: don’t do it. That’s basic economics.

    In addition, they garner so much negative publicity in that process that they damage their reputation needlessly, which may lead to additional spending to improve their public image.

    Finally, if you don’t have more than 0.002% of your earnings set aside for losses like this, then you shouldn’t be running the business. In reality, that number should be much, much higher than 0.002%.

    To conclude: the whole thing is stupid from the outset. Tracking the losses makes sense, so you know what the figures are. Once you know the figures, crunching the numbers to see if pursuing action against the perpetrators is trivial, and should show a very clear picture of whether to take action or not.

    In this case, no action was appropriate. Instead, they spent $150 million to get their public image ruined chasing after a bit more than $100k, and they will likely spend $100M more to try to repair their public image.

    The losers in this situation? The people.

    • PoliticalAgitator@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      They’re not bad at economics, they’re simply lying about what their goal was. That $150mil didn’t just blip out of existence like in a video game, it ended up in people’s pockets.

      I would bet good money that many of those pockets belonged to friends and family members. Neoliberals have been using this tactic for decades as a way to turn public funds into private profits.

  • zerog_bandit@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Can anyone explain to me what the consequence for fare jumping is if they don’t do this enforcement? Can an economist explain what the expected value lost from additional jumping is without enforcement?

    When I lived in NYC, I began getting monthly passes through work. I did this for 3 years, paying $100/mo or $1,200 a year. I was getting paid pennies to make a big company bigger, so I stopped paying and started jumping. I jumped for around 2 years on my commute and for any other transit. I had a pay per ride card if I was on a date or if I needed the bus transfer. I figured out which cars to hide in to avoid paying for LIRR or the Metro North tickets (hint: at rush hour, no one can walk through the cars).

    I was caught one time, I jumped the turnstiles into the 6 train at 68th/Hunter College. Right in front of 3 cops looking for jumpers (of course they were trying to ticket poor college kids). Got a ticket for $85. Still less than my monthly card would have cost. I was gonna argue it with some lame ass excuse but ended up paying it just so I wouldn’t have to take a day off work. I still saved over $2300 by jumping.

    So, not to say that this program is effective, but how many people were in a similar circumstance as me but decided not to jump because of deterrence policing?

    • escaped_cruzader@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Can anyone explain to me what the consequence is for fare jumping if they don’t do this?

      Number one reason is that it pisses people off as it is unfair

      Humans, like monkeys, are allergic to unfairness and more people will just jump because they also want free shit

      These policing efforts are just there to keep the number of free riders to the expected parameter and placate the paying users

      Capturing back lost fares is inconsequential

      • zerog_bandit@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Humans, like monkeys, are allergic to unfairness

        Hahahahahaha this is so patently false it makes me question your concept of reality.

        Edit: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Sorry I had to get that out.

    • Everythingispenguins@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      I would guess the argument is that the enforcement reduces the number of jumpers. So despite them running a negative on cost to catch. If the enforcement wasn’t there the number of jumpers would be high enough to justify the cost of enforcement. Having said that I don’t know if that is a knowable number.

      • TheKingBee@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        They are spending 150million that is 1442x what they are losing, even if their enforcement is reducing the number of fare jumpers it would take basically everyone jumping the line to make up the difference.

        They’d save money just by eating the cost…

        I cannot see how this ever economically works out.

        Got some more numbers, this meme (surprise) isn’t telling the whole story. I’m still not saying it works out, but it’s not this simple.

        Okay so the MTA has a budget of 19billion, of which $6.870 billion comes from fares, in 2022 they lost $285million in subway fares, and the police caught 105,000 people in 2023.

        I cannot find where the $104k number is coming from, I assume that’s the total amount owed by those they caught, but if they caught 105k people that’s only a dollar a person so I don’t know if it’s that low or I’m misunderstanding the $104k number.

        Again not saying it works out, but I’m not smart enough to do that math…

        • zerog_bandit@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Maybe this is the original problem. Why the fuck am I trusting some rando ruzzia twitter bot with facts and figures when the truth is published?

          Lol.