• Cypher@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Giving these girls a chance to enjoy school life without being subjected to indoctrination every minute of their lives by their parents is a good thing.

    If even some of them see past the bullshit of religion and can function as normal people it will be of benefit.

    • scarabic@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      This will probably lead to them being pulled out of state school and attending a Muslim school where they will truly get 100% indoctrination every second.

    • cley_faye@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Yes, because turning them away is such a good way to give them a chance to enjoy school life. You know what would have been good too? Let them in the school instead of putting them in the light like this and refusing entry for some of them.

      But, I suppose we have a different view of “enjoy a school life”; my vision happens in the school, yours happens in the school without some people.

      • Cypher@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        No one in France is allowed to wear religious iconography/clothing in public schools so why do you believe there should be an exemption for abayas?

        • cley_faye@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Because it is not particularly religious clothing? It is not exclusively used by religious people, it just happens to be mainly used by one group of people. Also, please, “no one in France is allowed to wear religious iconography”. Tell me you didn’t go to school in France without telling me you didn’t go to school in France. Some religion are overlooked quite often.

          I’m all for banning religious iconography from schools; but if that was the real goal (hint: it was not), do it fully, and only do it for actual religious stuff. This is about banning a sleeved dress that have little to no connection with religion except that “some people off said religion sometimes wears it”. I’m sure they sometimes wear snickers too, should we also ban them?

          • electrogamerman@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I think the point is that this particularly religious clothing is used to shame women of their bodies.

            You know other religions used to have women cover their bodies too, but that has been left behind a lot of years ago.

            I have a question for you, why dont men also cover their bodies? why is it that only women have to cover their bodies?

            “That is our culture!” It is a culture based on religion, based on regressive and mysoginistic ideals.

            • FinnFooted@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              The problem is, theres no definitive distinguishihg description of an abaya. It’s a loose dress. How do you distinguish someone who wants to be comfortable in a loose dress from a girl being oppressed by an abaya?

              • electrogamerman@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Is it really that hard for you to answer that?

                Maybe this will help: What is more important, allowing girls to feel comfortable in a loose dress or helping girls that are being opressed by an abaya?

                • FinnFooted@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  There are better ways to prevent oppression than controlling what people wear (which is ironically exactly what their oppressors are doing). These girls and women should feel comfortable and free to wear whatever they want, without being forced by religion or the french government. The answer to oppression and authoritarianism isn’t more oppression and authoritarianism.

                  • electrogamerman@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Yeah, the answr to opression and authoritianism is peace and love, go tell that to the ukranians, maybe if they surrender, Russia will threat them with love.

                    The solution of opression and authoritarianism is intolerance to them. The french government is not forcing people to wear something, they are enforcing the opressors to not force people to wear something.

            • cley_faye@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Hmm no? Please tell me how to distinguish a “regular” dress from a “religious” dress, when they have roughly the same coverage and no specific patterns. That would be helpful to enforce this new restriction without relying on the wearer’s religious belief.

                • FinnFooted@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Well, a bunch of men are certainly forcing them not to wear it now. I find it interesting that your answer to men controlling women is to have different men control the same women.

                  Edit: Honestly, fuck people who use religion as an oppressive tool. But, I find it really frustrating that people are acting like they’re liberating women and girls by controlling what they wear. That’s not liberation. These kids should be given access to confidential in school therapy and resources to report and deal with abusive parents if we’re actually worried about them being oppressed. But that’s not really what this is about.

                  Additionally, banning the abaya doesn’t prevent oppression. If these girls are being forced to dress modestly and being made ashamed of their bodies, they will just be forced to dress modestly in a vaguely different way now. Acting like this will bring meaningful change to these girls lives is just theater.

        • Hello Hotel@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Small prayers before meals is effectively religious iconography. So is muslums call to prayer. But are they prosthilitizing?

          • Cypher@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            iconography ī″kə-nŏg′rə-fē noun

            1. Pictorial illustration of a subject.
            2. The collected representations illustrating a subject.
            3. A set of specified or traditional symbolic forms associated with the subject or theme of a stylized work of art.

            An action is not iconography, though public prayer is absolutely proselytizing but how you think that relates to clothing standards is not clear.

        • SCB@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          No one in France is allowed to wear religious iconography/clothing in public schools

          Yeah that’s fucking evil and we should sanction France for it.

    • Flyswat@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 year ago

      Giving these girls a chance

      You mean forcing them.

      subjected to indoctrination

      What about those who chose it of their own will because they deem it modest and don’t want to be sexualized?

      • nyoooom@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Children don’t really choose many things, especially the way they dress

        • gmtom@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          You’re deadass arguing that teenage girls don’t choose how they dress???

          • nyoooom@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Oh, like yeah most teenage girls can wear whatever they want, no parents will never ever say “where are you going dressed like that?”

            Like literally whatever the standard of the parents is, they will enforce it on their teenagers in most cases, sure they can pick any clothes they want, as long as it fits the standard.

          • nyoooom@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Copy/pasting my answer to the other comment

            Oh, like yeah most teenage girls can wear whatever they want, no parents will never ever say “where are you going dressed like that?”

            Like literally whatever the standard of the parents is, they will enforce it on their teenagers in most cases, sure they can pick any clothes they want, as long as it fits the standard.

      • Kra@mtgzone.com
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        1 year ago

        If they want to dress like this they are free to do so in Arabia. But not in France. Nobody forcing those people to live here, they chose.