• paf0@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    I’m aware of the jdk alternatives and I will never use any of them because Oracle might some day decide that they’re an IP violation like they did with Google’s Android. I’m sure you’ll tell me something about the licensing being different but that still will not matter because there is always the possibility that Oracle will change their mind and start messing with me for sport. The Java ecosystem is rotten from the top down because Oracle cannot be trusted.

    • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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      5 months ago

      Oracle might some day decide that they’re an IP violation like they did with Google’s Android

      They lost that case. It went all the way to the US Supreme Court and set a binding precedent that an API re-implementation falls under the Fair Use doctrine. Maybe Oracle could try some excuse to say that OpenJDK is different enough from what Android did for that precedent to apply, but it would be a major uphill battle, and they know it.

      • paf0@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        It was expensive for Google and fighting them would destroy most companies. It’s cheaper to avoid the ecosystem entirely.

        • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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          5 months ago

          It was expensive for Google, but they’ve done the hard work of establishing the precedent. It’s much easier to fight when you have a strong binding precedent on your side.

          • paf0@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            I don’t have to fight if I just use something else. There is very little advantage to using Java when everything from .NET to Node to Ruby to Python are all super mature and have a similar amount of open source packages available. There might still be a question of performance and for that we have Go, Rust and elixir- not quite as mature but all still can do everything I need and then some.

            As an added bonus, none of those frameworks have Larry Ellison lurking around the corner waiting to sue me if he decides to change the terms of license. Java is dead to me.

                • atzanteol@sh.itjust.works
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                  5 months ago

                  They could though! Microsoft has a long history of “embrace, extend, extinguish”!

                  You may be willing to put your company at risk because you trust Microsoft but I’m not going to.

                  • paf0@lemmy.world
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                    5 months ago

                    Feel free to do you, I have told you this already. Seeing you’re unable to drop the conversation, when did Microsoft ever sue someone for using C#? I trust Microsoft far more than Oracle (reasons detailed in another comment). However, I do not run Microsoft software at my company at this time, other things work better for what I need.

        • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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          5 months ago

          Oh I agree. I love C#. My uni taught most of its classes in Java, but my work has been mostly C#, and it’s a huge step up. It would be my choice 100% of the time if starting a new project where the decision is between those two. But if I were using Java via OpenJDK, I wouldn’t be afraid of a lawsuit; that’s the only point I wanted to make.

    • atzanteol@sh.itjust.works
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      5 months ago

      OpenJDK is released under the GPL. That requires making any patents available for free to users.

      They could theoretically change their mind and try some shit, but the GPL is hard to go “backsies” on.

      • paf0@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Feel free to use it, as long as you’re willing to pay lawyers to fight them when they decide otherwise.

          • paf0@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            It’s just my reasoning as to why I won’t use Oracle products. Feel free to put your own company at risk.

            • atzanteol@sh.itjust.works
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              5 months ago

              I f’ing love how you’re blaming me personally. Don’t be a dick.

              BTW - don’t mistake “cynicism” for “reasoning”.

              • paf0@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                Sorry, I have my own company, my choices matter, you should blame whomever made that choice for you.

                It’s not necessarily cynicism if it’s based on previous patterns of behavior. Oracle reveals themselves to be run by bullies again and again and I choose to not put myself at risk. You do you.

                • atzanteol@sh.itjust.works
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                  5 months ago

                  It’s not necessarily cynicism if it’s based on previous patterns of behavior.

                  It’s exactly what it is because you’re ignoring facts that contradict your position because “I’ve been hurt before”. The OpenJDK license is currently the MOST permissive it’s ever been. And that was done by Oracle which is shocking to me.

                  The GPL is an old and well accepted license and there are lots of groups who will jump to defend it. And there are lots of companies backing the OpenJDK that aren’t Oracle. Oracle would need to fight Amazon, Microsoft, IBM (RedHat), the Eclipse Foundations, etc. if they wanted to change that.

                  • paf0@lemmy.world
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                    5 months ago

                    Sorry, no, I will not go back to my abuser because they say it’s different this time.