And every one forgave him, and even voted him into power.

All because South African Apartheid was fundamentally evil.

People forgave him because he actually changed his tactics, asked forgiveness and sued for peace instead of revenge.

“People tend to measure themselves by external accomplishments, but jail allows a person to focus on internal ones, such as honesty, sincerity, simplicity, humility, generosity and an absence of variety,” Mandela once said, according to a quote at the Apartheid Museum in Johannesburg. “You learn to look into yourself.”

What’s going on in the middle east is horrible. But, let’s not change history to fit your narrative.

I guess I just found your wording strange. Plenty of people are interested in different cultures. People read Greek and Norse mythology, Japanese or Slavic folklore without even being from those parts of the world. Do you think that the Conjuring or Exorcist are only scary if you’re Christian? Or the Ring is only relatable if you’re Shinto… Or you can only enjoy Thor movies if you’re pagan…?

Why is it only scary for Muslims?

I like what Mike Lynch (famous leader of one of UKs biggest union) said during his Novara media interview… I’ll paraphrase from memory. “Back in the day, your retirement was secured with your job. You’d get a pension from your employer when you get to retirement age. Then Thatcher and Reagan happen… Now days, there’s no security, benefits or high salaries anymore. So people do whatever they need to do to secure their retirement. And if it’s buying another property, so be it.”

Quick edit: before anyone gets angry. Neither myself or him want this to continue. It’s shit and we should fight to bring back dignity to people’s careers. But until that’s sorted, I think it’s ethical to care for your own and your family’s survival.

One would think that there would be more than just one lawyer who says that… Oh well… :)

Can’t believe no one mentioned this beauty! Mo-Do - Eins Zwei Polizei

I agree and I don’t understand why people like op keep bashing green parties. There’s a reason why nuclear is not a viable option. Ignoring the financial burden - Nuclear waste is not a technological issue, but a political one. People don’t trust politicians and corporations to keep it safe for multiple millennia. Look at the state of the UK rivers, chronical waste dumping to save money. People who don’t think it will happen with nuclear waste are delusional or don’t know their history, as we already had nuclear dumping incidents near Australia, Baltic Sea, Mediterranean Sea etc…

I didn’t say it’s a great plan. But it’s better than no plan.

I don’t understand all the down votes. You don’t have to agree with it, it doesn’t even mean that I agree with it… But I just wanted to shine some context to why it’s not ironic to many Jews.

I would like to bring a counter point for you to consider.

When I put all my money in a bank, I have a guaranty from a regulatory body /government that in case of bankruptcy I will still get my money back, even if the bank goes bust.

This is similar for Jews around the world - Israel is an insurance policy. If your local country starts leaning towards fascism and looking for a scapegoat (which is usually Jews), then you’d have the option to go to Israel immediately. Because historically they’ve seen and still see how refugees are being treated and not welcome globally.

I literally wrote a list of countries in my comment…

Let’s see…

…countries with other cultural influences.

No, no you didn’t.

You literally compared Anglo-Saxon countries to “countries with other cultural influences” and then say it’s complex… Pick a lane dude.

Which countries are you talking about? China? Mongolia? South Africa? Emirates? Argentina? I would argue that the “Anglo-Saxon” countries probably have less capital inequality, but it’s definitely a global problem - people with money don’t need to adhere to borders.

Ah yes Egypt, Israel’s best friend! Just like Pakistan and India, Greece and Turkey or Argentina and UK. Just because they signed a peace deal, it doesn’t mean they are allies. The following day, after the Hamas attacks, an Egyptian police officer shot at Israeli tourists in Alexandria and killed two Israelis and their Egyptian guide. Anti-Semitism is rife in the region.

Just because Israelis can fly or use the ports, doesn’t mean that they are not under constant dread - my analysis still stands.

The day Israel declared independence Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and volunteer corps from the Arab League (“Holy war army” and “Arab libertarian army” which had an insignia of the star of David with a dagger piercing it) attacked. This was fresh after Palestinian leaders met with Hitler in 1941 and the holocaust. They also saw that all the other neighbouring countries that declared independence in the region, including the ones from historical Palestine who took land from the Palestinian people, like Lebanon, Syria and Transjordan never got attacked or criticised. From Israel’s point of view it was because they are Jews and the Arabs want another holocaust.

I would love to see the settlements in the West Bank dissolved, but it will never happen while the Arab (and Persian) world is still very much antisemitic and wants all the Israelis dead or “gone”. The West Bank and Golan Heights offer strategic depth and security to Israel, and they will never leave. And they are willing to become the next North Korea if they have to, but at least they will be alive.

Now you don’t have to agree with any of this. But those are “facts” for the Israelis. For them it’s an existential crisis. The only way to reform Israel is also to reform the Arab world. Otherwise it’s just a race to the bottom - both sides will elect more and more extremists.

As long as Gaza is entirely surrounded by Israel or countries doing Israels bidding, it will remain a prison, unless Israel goes through serious reform and atops being a brutal opressive regime.

This is only true if you agree with the opposite as well: As long as Israel is entirely surrounded by Arab League or countries doing their bidding, it will remain a fortress under siege, unless the Arab world goes through serious reform and atops being brutal opressive regimes.

Otherwise, you’re a hypocrite.

Hezbollah have 15 ministers in parliament and are literally in the caretaker government coalition.

I mean you can call Gaza a lot of things, but they’re free in the domestic politics sense. As in nobody can really tell them what to do with their people because they’re already cut off from the world by Israel.

And Egypt.

Oh and also, while Arab is a collective identity, it’s not an ethnicity. There are things you can call ethnicities within the Arab world (Egyptian, for example), but Arab itself is more of an umbrella term for native Arabic speakers.

This is incorrect. There’s a scientific consensus of nationality, ethnicity and identity. Arabs are an ethnicity. Egyptian are a nationality. I gave you demographical statistics, you can check them yourself - they clearly state Palestinian Arab (Sunni) - nationality ethnicity (identity). I’ve dropped the Palestinian part because of your previous comment.

An ethnostate isn’t just a state compromised of one ethnicity; it’s a state that’s meant for one ethnicity. Like, Germany is an ethnostate, for example. And then Israel takes that to another level by creating laws that favor that ethnicity. While most developed ethnostates have abandoned their ethnocentric roots, Israel actively embraces them. That’s not how a modern state should be, as it compromises equality between citizens from the get-go.

This whole paragraph makes no sense. You use the same criteria but apply it differently as you see fit.

No no that’s not the level we’re talking about. Jewish law actively favors Jews over non-Jews. Does any Palestinian state have something like that? A state that does nothing has that beat.

I didn’t see any facts to prove otherwise. There’s a reason why Palestinian minorities like the Palestinian Druze, Baha’i, etc. live outside of the Palestinian authorities - like Israel or Lebanon.

I was wondering if Ethno state actually means anything. But it seems to be just a buzz word that people use. Either that, or people conflate it with apartheid.

If you said that Israel is an apartheid state, I would agree with you. When there’s no difference in other countries, to say ethno state is hypocritical at best… or straight on antisemitic.

I’ll give you the benefit of a doubt and assume that you just confused your terms and meant apartheid.

The area is full of authoritarian regimes, but ethnocracies? Where are those?

Lebanon, Turkey…

I mean the “free” part is pretty dubious but there are already two Palestinian states and it doesn’t seem they’re interested in going down that route. Also considering being Palestinian an ethnicity is already pretty dubious when the Palestinian identity evolved as a response to Zionism in the 20th century. The factors that led to Israel being in its current state simply don’t exist for Palestinians.

I would argue that we can’t really know because Palestinian states are not really free states - they don’t have an army, don’t have their own monetary system, limited foreign trade, Israel and other international bodies control it’s borders, Jordan controls it’s religious sites, etc.

I also disagree with how you characterise the Palestinian identity, but we can ignore that for the sake of discussion. According to 2018 statistics - West Bank: 72% Arab (Sunni), 28% Jewish. (We can ignore the Jewish number as is mostly in eat Jerusalem) Gaza: 98%-99% Arab (Sunni) Both have less than 1% Other.

But if you want to insist that they have a functional government(s) at the moment, then their demographics are worst than Israel’s. And I can’t see how it’s not an ethno state.

What kind of policies do the Palestinian authorities offer to attract minorities?

In an area full of ethnocracies, authoritarian regimes and dictatorships,I doubt that a free Palestinian state wouldn’t be one as well. After years of persecution from Lebanon, Syria, Israel, Jordan, Egypt… A free Palestinian state would most likely copy the Israeli model and make a refuge for all Palestinians of the world. I’m interested to hear why you think it wouldn’t be an ethno state.

I see this said a lot and it always confuses me. Wouldn’t an independent Palestine also be an ethno state?