- cross-posted to:
- foss@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- foss@beehaw.org
cross-posted from: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/22423685
EDIT: For those who are too lazy to click the link, this is what it says
Hello,
Sad news for everyone. YouTube/Google has patched the latest workaround that we had in order to restore the video playback functionality.
Right now we have no other solutions/fixes. You may be able to get Invidious working on residential IP addresses (like at home) but on datacenter IP addresses Invidious won’t work anymore.
If you are interested to install Invidious at home, we remind you that we have a guide for that here: https://docs.invidious.io/installation/..
This is not the death of this project. We will still try to find new solutions, but this might take time, months probably.
I have updated the public instance list in order to reflect on the working public instances: https://instances.invidious.io. Please don’t abuse them since the number is really low.
You must log in or register to comment.
So if Google can ban our IP if caught using this, could you now use some type of dynamic IP mechanism every time they ban the IP?
For Android users, I highly recommend NewPipe as a YouTube client
Revanced is also very nice if you prefer the regular YouTube layout and experience
I use newpipe and freetube for my Andriod and PC respectively.
Or Tubular, which is an up to date fork with Sponsorblock support as well
I wonder if some kind of mesh might work. Maybe like a secret Santa type deal. By that I mean everyone who connects, gets a randomised, anonymous partner or partners. Everyone in the swarm streams for each other.
If you have the resources, host your own to help and spread the load across public instances.
They said:
You may be able to get Invidious working on residential IP addresses (like at home) but on datacenter IP addresses Invidious won’t work anymore.
and I imagine that most people that host something like this do so using a VPS. Homelabs tend to be the minority use case.
Plus, some ISPs might frown upon the increase in traffic when hosting a public service.
I hate my ISP.
Plus, some ISPs might frown upon the increase in traffic when hosting a public service.
this shit is so stupid, i pay for the fucking bandwidth, give me the fucking bandwidth.
Most residential ISPs would frown upon a large amount of upload traffic for a public service, and request that you switch to a business plan with a much lower contention ratio. Contention ratio is essentially the number of people the bandwidth is shared with. For example, if you have a 1Gbps connection with a contention ratio of 50:1 (common for residential ISPs), 50 people share the same 1Gbps bandwidth. That’s designed with the idea that not every user is using all their bandwidth at the exact same time. Constant uploads all day (like with a public proxy) breaks that assumption. Business plans usually have a contention ratio of 10:1 to 20:1.
The CEO of my ISP (Sonic) explicitly mentioned that they don’t like people hosting servers on their forum:
We don’t want folks hosting publically accessible servers on Sonic fiber. Primarily because while household consumption can be estimated and averaged, and is roughly limited by your ability to consume (how many TVs will you stream to, plus downloads and other activities, during the peak bandwidth usage time of the day?), when you host the usage is instead limited only by the REST of the world’s interest in what you’re offering.
So while a family of six with five 4K TVs might see peak average usage under 100Mbps if absolutely every device is on and all consuming full-scale content – a single Raspberry PI web server with a single video hosted on it might swamp a gigabit port if that video file is something everyone in the world wants to see.
While we can provide the fastest residential connection in America, it’s pricing relies upon typical use cases. That pricing is not sustainable if someone is hosting a popular website, sharing with neighbors, feeding a wireless ISP, acting as a TOR exit node, etc etc. Servers belong in data-centers (aka “the cloud”), for practical network scale as well as economic reasons.
They don’t block it though, and they’re fine with low-bandwidth things like Home Assistant, VPNs, etc.
a single Raspberry PI web server with a single video hosted on it might swamp a gigabit port if that video file is something everyone in the world wants to see
genuine question, do ISPs and networking infra people actually use the “global world” as a bandwidth heuristic consideration? Like i can see it being a potential problem, but i feel like the answer is fucking obvious here.
Didn’t Odysee recently removed ads? Anyway, I think I’ll start watching videos on Odysee and peertube, via RSS feeds. At least from youtubers that upload there.
Self hosted option is a docker image. Probably not difficult to set up.
YouTube will not change until people stop using it. And people do not want to put up with the inconvenience of not having a YouTube type service again for the amount of time it would take for YouTube to change or a viable competitor to take their place, it really is that simple.
Are YouTube and Google terrible? For sure, but it only got this way because the only backstop to holding them accountable, the consumer, has proven that they will choose putting up with shitty products and services in the name of convenience 9 times out of 10.
Same reasons that ad tiers are gaining a foothold in streaming services like Netflix. The consumer has shown they are fine with it.
I see we’re pretending the government doesn’t have regulatory power today
Time to pirate YT content and upload to usenet to be automatically downloaded using sonarr
Honestly, it would probably be easier to just build a *arr program specifically for downloading YouTube videos directly. Tie it into the rest of the *arr suite, with naming conventions for Plex/Jellyfin.
I would install that, but I fear scraping youtube will be a arms race, soon, similar to other streaming services
Yes but literally throwing together a script to download the days subscription videos to a jellyfin media drive would be stupidly simple.
“Stupidly simple” might be overselling it when it comes to the masses adopting it. Not everyone is adept at “throwing together a script.”
That being said, I’m all for helping the masses adapt.
Sure, but not as convenient 🤷🏻
Same reasons that ad tiers are gaining a foothold in streaming services like Netflix. The consumer has shown they are fine with it.
Yep, I remember when Netlfix first put it out there that they would start with the ads, and everyone on reddit was like, “Canceling my Netflix right now!!”
Netflix is doing just fine without the 5 redditors who actually did cancel it. lmao
I know you weren’t using the number 5 as a hard example, but a thing that people still don’t seem to realize is that the people in threads like this are the people that actually care. Even if the few thousand redditors who subscribe to a subreddit where they discussed that topic were to all (and I mean 100% of them) cancel there subscriptions. That is still only a drop in the bucket for Netflix. Losing a few thousand subscribers is still nothing if they made more money with the addition of ads.
Losing a few thousand subscribers is still nothing if they made more money with the addition of ads.
It’s the same with increasing the price of a service. Usually, the extra revenue from the price increase is far greater than the revenue loss from people that unsubscribe. If a business has a choice between a large number of customers with a small amount of profit per customer, and a small number of customers with a larger amount of profit per customer, they’ll always pick the latter. Fewer customers reduces other costs, for example less support load, less bandwidth usage, etc.
It is interesting to me that the chorus always talking about “switching” to piracy after every incident is also intimately familiar with piracy already. Almost as if it’s just people who already pirate talking to each other about how hard they are going to pirate. Meanwhile general audiences don’t care.
Almost as if it’s just people who already pirate talking to each other about how hard they are going to pirate. Meanwhile general audiences don’t care.
this isn’t quite true, we have seen an uptick in piracy over the last few years from the streaming service hyper diversion thats been happening for some time now.
It’s probably not a lot of people, but it is still happening.
these are also the people who would pay more for quality service if it was available.
the problem is so many people are willing to say they’ll take a stand.
but when the time comes, the mindnumbingly overwhelming majority suck it up, because they must have their precious shiny and can not suffer even the mildest of inconvenience.
Its my biggest gripe in gaming, but its a enormous gripe just in general, with everything. because it doesnt matter if you are talking about appliances, creative software, video games, streaming services, stores, etc.
this is the primary reason i advocate for more piracy, and even legal protections for piracy, in some capacity.
It’s one of the few spaces i consider to be a “truly free market” when it comes to economics.
I’m more and more inclined towards the idea of piracy myself as time goes on and media continues to shave itself down into more and more ridiculous, unrelated shards, that you have to subscribe to just to be able to SEE if they have what you want.
I don’t actively do it actively since I dont really know where to begin, and things I have found have been to sketch for me, or requiring memberships or even payments to join.
if you’re looking for the babies first torrenting introduction, dbzer0 has a pretty comprehensive guide on it.
Might be worth looking into i2p as well, if you don’t want to spend any money on it at least. Usenets and closed trackers are a weird one, usually based on memberships, but with good quality control of members and content so.
there’s also the *arr stack but im sure there’s a write of that one up on github or something.
To summarize what I was telling another person. The number of people who care are far outnumbered by the number of people who don’t. It doesn’t matter if you or I or all 10,000 (just a random number for the sake of argument) of the people subscribed to a sub like this were to cancel when r/justworks or r/normie (made up subreddits for the sake of argument) has 100,000,000 who don’t give a damn about computers, privacy, or anything else beyond the service working or not.
I agree. Tech communities have a habit of drastically over estimating how much everyone else cares about the details of tech.
Even something as simple as PC gaming scares off a lot of people because of the perception that you need to be some kind of tech wizard in order to cobble everything together to make a game run. Actual cobbling together of software to pirate (no matter how simple it seems to people in the know) is just a bunch of technobabble.
I have people whom I still need to explain copy and paste to on a regular basis. Trust me, I understand.
I’m a millennial and sometimes I feel like we’re the only generation that learnt how to use computers properly. Boomers / Gen X often aren’t great with computers, and neither are Gen Z / Alpha since they use phones and tablets far more. There’s outliers of course.
🏴☠️ 🏴☠️🏴☠️
“Socialist Chaos Trow” lol
While I agree, I have a hard time seeing how people will stop using it until the field changes. Maybe in 10 years it will the the MySpace of the sitcom era, but right now it’s still growing. That growth is giving it carte blanche to manipulate the users as it sees fit. Regulation might impact it, but it’s still a bit of a Goliath.
- Compared to 2023, YouTube’s user base has grown by 20 million this year, representing a 0.74% increase. From Global media insights
Also the active user base is 2.7 billion people in 2024 from the same source above.
The alternatives are out there, but just not in the same league.
Regulation might impact it
I’m having a hard time seeing any bill get passed that supports the rights of users to watch videos without the ads that support the creators and the platform that they’re watching.
regulations for ad quality, and privacy, are almost certainly what they mean by that.
I don’t think this requires an act of congress. I think you might see more consumer advocation on the part of FTC (although it doesn’t currently regulate online broadcast), or potentially the CFPB.
Admittedly it’s more likely to see the EU do some regulations, but it all depends on the election.
I think it needs regulation, the whole streaming industry needs to be regulated! It can’t be that the competition is made using exclusive content and you have to live with privacy infringement tech to consume cultural art legally.
In my opinion, in a capitalist system, the market competition should be about delivering the content the best way, not about what content they deliver.
Right now, they can made the delivery as shitty as they want, because what takes them apart from competition is the exclusive content, not the tech.
Agreed, now the fun part of coming up with a legal basis to do so and convincing regulators.
I think in the EU one could achieve something like this a la appstore opening rule, where streaming services are demanded to give other streaming services access to the library, lime some sort of roaming 🤔
Or you split the distribution from the company producing stuff
So many possibilities 😂
Luckily I am in a pirate friendly country 🏴☠️
I’m having a hard time seeing any bill get passed that supports the rights of users to watch videos without the ads that support the creators and the platform that they’re watching.
We should reach a compromise of having skippable ads in the beginning only, for example. In other pages it could be that ads cannot be bigger than 10% of the content being delivered on the page.
It’s not always all or nothing, good regulation listens to both sides and reaches a compromise in the middle, but good regulation is getting harder and harder to come by.
The elites don’t want you to know but “[y]ou may be able to get Invidious working on residential IP addresses (like at home)”
Following their guide gives a local Invidious client, don’t forget to 1) copy their production compose file instead of using the one on git and 2) change “hmac_key”… from my experience setting up cron (
crontab -e) to restart the docker container once per day keeps the Invidious docker healthy
Edit: here are some alternatives for popular Google services. Not in anyway related to the above (smirk
- Google itself: SearXNG (try searx.be first), one of the easiest services to self-host
- Gmail/calendar: a lot of people seem to swear by one of Proton Mail, Tutanota or Mailbox.org. Self-hosting is possible but challenging
- Google Drive: You mean Nextcloud?
- Google maps: Organic Maps is actually getting pretty good now
- Google Chrome: at the very least there is Chromium… obviously there is Firefox and Firefox forks (such as Librewolf), as well as other smaller browsers
- Google Play: F-Droid hosts a lot of FOSS stuff, and there are alternative ways to access Play (such as Aurora Store)
- Android: a bit more difficult… but there is LineageOS, GrapheneOS, and similar stuff
If you do this, I would be fully prepared to lose access to all your Google services along with anyone else who may use Google services on the same IP. Gmail, Play store, Chrome, etc, etc can easily be wiped out with a ban from Google and this can seriously fuck people’s day up if they’ve used Gmail and have 2FA setup on any external account.
Cory wrote about this in his essay, "Unpersoned". I’ve been using gmail as a spam catcher for all the sleazy sites you need to register with, but didn’t realize how I’ve made a trap for myself when, for example, my prescriptions need 2 factor authorization via my gmail. This is going to be a hard one to detangle.
I guess I forgot to take that into consideration… I’m not worried about Google banning my IP since I essentially don’t use any Google services at all and my home IP is hidden behind a wireguard tunnel, but yes that is a valid concern
But I mean someone can just spin it up on their home network so… No way 192.168.0.1:3000 can get someone into trouble right
Like any other web services, Google can see the public ip your personal invidious instance is using to access youtube servers. The local
192.168.x.xip are for internal access.google probably can detect how invidious accesses their site
At least until they start blacklisting IPs using Invidious.
One of the positives of nat
CGNAT at least.
yt-dlp still works.
A spark of hope in a dim world.
I’ve seen it go down in some cases on VPNs, so it could be a matter of time (or they’ll find a solution again and the back and forth will just continue).
My god, what if its on google’s chopping block next?
I often consider the scenario.
What would I do if Google straight sniped and headshot every single method of piracy, even embedding the ads into the video?
"He’ll pay now!*
Nah, never. People are more momentary, at least I am. I don’t care if I’m being entertained by “X”. If “X” isn’t worth the trouble, there’s “Y”. The days of everyone even caring to digest the same media as anyone else is over unless your main drugs are pop music, Asmongold reacting to politics and influencers.
Donate to the EFF for fighting that fight in court already.
Not just invidious, they’ve just de facto blocked video embedding:
If you’re wondering how a viable competitor could arise, other companies needing a video hosting solution that they can rely on to run their storefronts is a perfect use case. This is the Humble Bundle storefront, and they could pretty easily spin up a peertube instance. If that became commonplace, it could be one way for peertube to become ubiquitous.
EDIT: This is related to my VPN I believe, but storefronts still aren’t going to be happy if they can’t rely on their storefronts working for everyone.
other companies needing a video hosting solution that they can rely on to run their storefronts is a perfect use case.
Many companies use Vimeo for this.
rain world???
Rain world.
deleted by creator
I watch embedded videos all the time. Literally hundreds this weekend. Embedded is not “de facto blocked”.
Well I now can’t unless I disable my VPN. Storefronts would probably like VPN users to be able to use their stores, in which case they might be more interested in an alternative.
Professional hosting for business use is not hard, and fairly common even. But these make up a tiny fraction of YouTube videos, and they mostly post there to get organic growth and be suggested to people already watching YouTube.
Sure but it’s really common to see embedded youtube videos on storefronts, and if storefronts en masse abandoned it that’s one more piece of the market that youtube has lost.
They can’t keep locking it down and not lose market share, is my point. They’re enshittifying so much, so fast, and eventually there will be a tipping point.
They can’t keep locking it down and not lose market share, is my point
They can very much afford to lose a tiny amount of marketshare in exchange for a massive increase in ad and subscription revenue, is my point.
“Massive increase” I think needs a source.
And they rely on the network effect to be the de facto standard video hoster. Every little bit of that network that they carve off while they’re enshittifying brings them closer to the critical point where people can afford to ditch them.
The logic that they can “afford” to lose marketshare is exactly what will make them keep losing it until people migrate en masse and they lose all of their marketshare.
Youtube is now big enough for not caring about the network effect.
- Start companies
- make a free product with network effect
- gain a lot of users
- now that you have your user base, user growth is not as relevant anymore and therefore network effect is not needed anymore
- enshitificate for more ad revenue, more tracking and direct subscriptions
- profit (finally after decades)
Capitalism is just fucked 🤷🏻🏴☠️
What? No, the network effect is why they have a dominant position. The network effect comes from their user base.
Enshittification is how platforms die, it’s not a winning business model, it’s just an outworking of capitalism’s contradictions.
The way you wrote that shows you don’t understand the principles at all.
I could explain further but you’d have to express interest.
“Massive increase” I think needs a source.
Don’t have one. Pure speculation. Much like yours, I assume? Unless you have a source to the contrary?
How often do you see professional videos on the trending page on YT?
Source for what? The network effect? I gave you a link, you can read.
And youtube is enshittifying.
These are both well-established effects. My sourcing is finished now. It beats your “pure speculation” unless you have something else you want to add.
Source for what?
This:
They’re enshittifying so much, so fast, and eventually there will be a tipping point.
or this:
Every little bit of that network that they carve off while they’re enshittifying brings them closer to the critical point where people can afford to ditch them.
or this:
The logic that they can “afford” to lose marketshare is exactly what will make them keep losing it until people migrate en masse and they lose all of their marketshare.
And youtube is enshittifying.
Yes, you’ve said that several times.
These are both well-established effects.
The fact that it exists is not evidence that it’s taking place here.
My sourcing is finished now.
LOL no.
yo rainworld i used to have a friend that was a fan of that game
aww, thanks!
-rain worldIt’s a 10/10 for me! Amazing game but definitely not for everyone
True
What happened?
I dont feel like i wanna say it on lemmy
I wasn’t curious about your friend until this comment lmao. Cheers friend.
Alr enjoy your day
Seems it’s fixed now?
Could be, maybe it’s intermittent, but the more times they try to lock this shit down and it stops working for storefronts, the more unreliable it becomes.
What percentage of visits can they afford to have this error happen before they seek alternatives? If it were my business and I didn’t know how many customers were closing the store page because the video didn’t play and they lost interest, I would be immediately looking for an alternative.
EDIT: Still broken for me. I can fix it by turning off my VPN, but storefronts are going to want to sell to everyone, including the VPN users.
is that a possible workaround? Also, a tip from my school trying to block YouTube (idk if it applies here) is that you can ‘add to queue’ to where it plays in the corner then there’s a button to make it bigger.
i absolutely despise youtube. these fuckers are putting ads on paused videos now, and then this.
they will never get better. only worse. we need regulations badly.
We need a competitor badly.
Paying Nebula subscriber here 🙋♂️
Pony up or your call for a competitor doesn’t mean anything. People don’t want ads? Fine. There has to be another revenue stream. Server capacity costs money, making a website and app cost money, and video creators need to eat.
Absolutely this. I pay for both my Proton and Notesnook accounts. No ads, no trafficing my data, and services I like and believe in.
Then isn’t the obvious move to just pay for youtube?
I also do that. But Nebula is more thoroughly creator friendly. 50% of net profits go to creators and are divided by their share of watch time. That is a far more creator friendly policy than YT having a closed ad algorithm and you just get what you get. The YT display algorithm is also famously opaque and has some bullshit nanny filters on it such that you can’t actually make a faithful video about something like a historical massacre without being demonetized and hurting your channel in the algo.
There’s a lot I like about YT and being a premium subscriber does benefit creators there but I think Nebula is a next step in that evolution and it’s off to a decent start.
I pay for both.
Competitor with no content, users is not a competitor. Youtube should be forced to share content they do not own. Just for the sake of competition.
The content isn’t the problem. It’s the delivery system. No one else has the storage and network capacity that Youtube has. And as a result of that, no one else has the built-in audience Youtube has. Putting your videos on YT is simply the best way to get views.
I wish they’d nationalize stuff like YouTube, and online data storage, etc
I use odysee, and so far it’s been nice.
rumble is pretty good
fuck off out of here with your nazi platforms
Pretty much every Alternative Tech platform also has a huge far right population Lemmy is an exception to this but has a decently sized far left population instead I dunno how it is now but a lot of people complained a couple of weeks ago about Nazis joining Bluesky and one of the guys from Bluesky covering them
Mastadon has a huge far right population?
Poast is listed as one of the biggest instances You just don’t notice it on Mastadon since a lot of them are defederated
Gab and Truth.social are Mastodon instances, just defederated by everyone else in case of the former, and not federating and pretending they’re their own thing in case of the latter.
that’s true, but platforms like rumble were created to be homes to the far right. we shouldn’t encourage their existence.
Whatever happened to dailymotion?
Does anyone really post anything to Dailymotion besides blatantly unauthorized TV stuff? I can’t imagine it’d be very good vibes for anyone trying to make an honest living with original content over there.
Dailymotion does not allow for commenting anymore. That’s why I stopped using it.
iirc they tried to become a tiktok clone, no idea how it went but considering i never see anyone talk about it i doubt it went very well
I used it a bit because its also on Grayjay but its pretty terrible and focuses a lot on big media than individual people
You want regulations on ads for a free service?
The entitlement is wild.
Free or not, monopolies should be regulated.
Do you pay for nebula?
Yes, and ads should be regulated regardless of whether the service is free or not. Same way you can’t put outright porn on a highway billboard.
They’re a monopoly that relies on users to produce content. You see, in a functional capitalist system, when one supplier deliberately hinders competition through unfair trade practices, they are made to change their methods in order to foster competition.
When that system is corrupted and fails to act in a timely manner, all bets are off.
You know where else you can go to find the billions of videos users have uploaded? No. How did it get that way? Just, luck? No.
Yes, we want regulations on ads in YouTube, and it’s an ignorant and arrogant position to call that “entitled”.
Works for Albania.
Its not like google fucking earned that money anyways. You don’t earn billions of dollars.
Think about it. If you earned a million dollars a year, you’d be set for life. If you lived for a full hundred years you’d have only made 1/10th of a billion dollars. Despite the fact that its still more money than either of us will probably ever see.
The people who operate google have billions with an s at the end. Think about the hardest working person you’ve known. Think about how little money they made.
Now ask yourself, what did the people with billions do to earn that money? How hard did they have to work to justify it, and how is that level of work even humanly possible? How would a bunch of spoiled overgrown trustfund fratboys find it in themselves do that work?
They fucking don’t. The only people who get that rich do it by cheating, and stealing, and fucking people over. Those fuckers owe us a lot more than video streaming services.
Your math is off. You said one million per day, but your 1/10 of a billion would have it as one million per year
Oof that’s a typo, yeah meant years. Sorry bud.
👌👍
You’ll never get upvotes for telling people this reality, but you are of course completely correct.
If only we saw as much enthusiasm for voting generally as we see for taking ads off YT. Maybe we’d actually get a government that was willing to regulate titans.
You can still watch YouTube without ads using grayjay.app including sponsor block.
Thanks to Louis Rossman
Or just use Firefox with ublock?
Sure, that works too, however with grayjay you can follow creaters across platforms. So in case someone’s account gets banned by YouTube due to whatever bullshit reason, you can continue following them on other platforms. Next to that you won’t get spammed with Shorts junk. If you want to download a video to watch it offline, you can actually watch it offline (you don’t require a connection like with YouTube to watch something offline)
But ur data gets raped if u don’t use a VPN + no account (but then u don’t get to see age restricted material)
Yo did someone hit you in the head with a golf club? Why are you talking like that?
They grew up before t9.
I was already an adult when T9 was still a thing and never texted like this. I could write out full sentences while my phone was still in my pocket.
What’s t9?
T9 was a rapid entry system for sending texts using a number pad on a phone.
Instead of doing hello as 44 33 555 555 666 you could do 43556 and it’d predict ‘hello’.
Holy shit, someone that ACTUALLY knows what T9 was!
Most people think that T9 was the method of typing on the telephone keypad, but no its an improvement on that!
Predictive text was another name for it.
Ooookay… How’s that relevant here tho… I’m so confused
bro sounds soo drunk
I swear I’m not. I’m just rlly rlly confused with why people r saying the things they’re saying. I don’t understand.
Isn’t it true tho? YouTube’s a privacy nightmare- they know everything about ur content preferences, ur political learnings, everything. Without a VPN + no account, say goodbye to any semblance of privacy.
Ur
grayjay doesnt have return youtube dislike
It has its own like and dislike system, so it’s not cluttered by yt bots.
oh
It does, you can turn it on in the YouTube plugin settings.
alr i might redownload that app later
We can’t complain about everything, here, considering the circumstances.
Start asking your favourite content creators to post on PeerTube.
on which instance?
Tilvids.com is a good start. Fx The Linux Experiment is there.
Otherwise, I host peertube.wtf.
And then watch the peertube instance die. See also: https://github.com/Chocobozzz/PeerTube/issues/5783
And how are they going to make a living to keep producing videos?
I’d say ask them to join Nebula.
Nebula is cool and all, but at the end of the day, it’s still a commercial platform, and those do tend to enshittify and depend a lot on externalities.
As creators grow more dependent on Nebula, Sam and the team of original Nebula creators can wield more power and change the rules.
They already dictate the kind of content that is allowed - for example, Second Thought, one of the original creators behind Nebula, was asked to leave as he doesn’t agree to change public stance on Israeli-Palestinian conflict (he is pro-Palestine). This has suddenly left him without a source of revenue necessary for the production to expand, and has put him into debt.
Solution? Probably independent sponsorships that would go both on YouTube and PeerTube videos. Or a creator reward system like in Lbry/Odysee. Something that would allow to reward creators without going full commercial.
Remember when people posted on YouTube for fun? It’s only when it became a viable business that the platform turned to shit.
Ah yes, youtube now is just one big ad and sponsorship cesspool flooded with clickbait and misinformation and with highly privacy invasive protocol. Its a souless capitalisic corporate machine. I dont know why people would still use it. Just let youtube die.
I dont know why people would still use it.
Third-party clients, ad-block and sponsorblock are the only way I can still use it LOL
Also there simply aren’t any alternatives that aren’t alt-right cesspools or just awful to use…
All the people I watch on youtube make the majority of their money on patreon or twitch. Youtube is way too heavy handed with demonitization and copyright strikes to be a trutsworthy income source.
Direct payment to creators seems like the most simple and efficient method.
That depends. If they only make a living with YT ads, then it’s going to be hard.
About half the ads I see on YouTube are already within the videos they post. I wonder what the overall ratio is of YouTube ad revenue versus in-video ad revenue.
Are you talking about sponsors? Because yes, that has nothing to do with YT ads.
I guess I forgot things like Patreon which could be a valid option. Although I’m neither a fan of subscribing to specific creators nor am I particularly fond of Patreon.
With Nebula my perception is that I pay a monthly fee and they can figure out who gets what depending on whose videos I watched. I don’t need to be particular in my action on who to support.
Nebula is a good option, but now you’ve created a paywall. Now only people who can afford it, can watch the content and what is to keep Nebula from upping the price of the subscription?
If ads is out of the question, then content creators need to use sponsors and patrons, if they want to make a living.
People want a fantasy world where all the main content is free and two or three rich sponsors support the creator by sponsoring little extras only available to Patreon supporters. The ends will never meet in the middle on that. It’s a fantasy where people get what they want for free because someone else pays for it. Won’t work. Get out your cash, kids. Cancel your Netflix and put the money into Nebula.
Don’t shift the blame on “people wants” as if they’re owed by the people. Most people dont even ask for whatever content that is pushed out. And what’s more content creator is just a glorified term for online digital panhandlers. And they frame it as if viewers are meant to owe them something all while contributing as little to their efforts that amounts to no significance as possible. Imagine paying someone to make a facial reaction and talking for a bit everytime you passed a panhandler and they call themselves a content creator. It’s bogus way to frame or even justify that especially considering they get payed far larger sums comparison to people who actully work for a living while dodging the taxes. And is unlikely any such platform as youtube as well as its big panhandlers are struggling with finances. Youtube gets $15 billion dollars a year in ad revenue and hey greedily continue the push for more ads. And the digital panhandlers calling themselves content creators can make more money in a week than the typical wage slave can in a year.
An advantage of funding things via a collective like Nebula as opposed to each individual creator managing their own patrons is that new creators can start making bigger, more expensive projects quicker. Even established creators have this advantage, they can take bigger risks on bigger projects with the safety net of a share of the nebula pie.
I don’t think a project like The Prince would exist without Nebula, for example.
a collective like Nebula
FYI, Nebula isn’t a collective: https://scribe.rip/@cameron-paul/who-actually-owns-nebula-952a1c12d9c0
Thanks for the link, it was a very interesting read. While it is disappointing that it’s not actually a collective (assuming this blog post is accurate), having a platform run and owned by 6 creators is still better than YouTube’s governance structure, and still has the advantage in having both the capacity and desire to invest in creators.
Nebula is also priced for the masses. You get an entire video service for one reasonable price. Patreon finally has really low priced options like $1 a month but for the longest time it was like $25/month just for the entry level supporter package and I could never justify blowing all that on one creator. I also hated digging around the Patreon app for the sponsor content and dealing with its stupid push notifications.
I find Nebula is a much more sustainable thing. And I still discover new creators there. Because after all I’m not going to be set for life with one or two YT creators. I want to find new things too. Nebula gives you that.
They also can use sponsors in the video, but that only works when you have enough views.
You could also send money via paypal or kofi if you don’t like subscriptions, if the creator has it set up.
Yes if a creator’s main living can be shifted into Patreon or their own independent subscription service, THEN you will see them move off of YT because it actually works against them at that point. Mark Spagnuolo aka The Wood Whisperer has made this transition. He’s been around years (decades?) with awesome quality woodworking content. He’s found independent sponsorships. He’s created his own subscription service and takes direct payments but also uses platforms like Patreon. He plays the social media game very well. He travels to trade shows and keeps up with a podcast. He is the gold standard for what it takes a creator to move off of YT and still make a living IMO. His wife is a driving force behind making the business work and I think it’s a full time job for her too and probably a staff of employees. Mark used YT in the early years to build an audience but he does very little at all on YT nowadays.
He also has very little out there now that is free 🤷♂️
You can’t have it both ways
Same way they do on YT. Viewer contributions + sponsor spots + merch. They only miss out on ad revenue (which I concede is not insignificant).
Nebula is ok but I took 1 look at their privacy policy and passed.
So you want them to take a huge pay cut? To what benefit, just YoUTubE bAd?
To literally everyone’s benefit except YouTube.
Viewer don’t have to submit themselves to Google’s horrific practices and policies, and creators get the freedom to post what they want without some 3rd party determining it’s illegal when it’s not and taking it down or giving all of their income to someone else.
I’m not telling anyone what to do, I’m just pointing out that it’s not impossible.
They can still post on YouTube.
It might take a tiny bit of their revenue away but I doubt it would make much of a dent, especially for creators that run mostly on patreon anyway.
Patreon and all the other services creators have at their disposal already.
Don’t think most Youtubers can make a living these days solely on YT as revenue, and are already exploring other avenues.
Paying Nebula subscriber here 🙋♂️
I can’t stand hearing people whine about wanting everything for free and how DARE people try to make a living so they can eat in between making videos!!!
I just want the videos no creator makes money on. I expect thats about 50% at least. Let’s start there. Put them in the Library of Congress and YouTube will be free to enshittify themselves into oblivion without complaint.
or odysee ig but i cannot find a good peertube instance i can post in
What are your criteria for a good instance? I host one myself, so genuinely curious.
The age limit yeah I think the peertube instances on their site follow the gdpr
Yea, a minimum of 13 years old is pretty common. Also something I agree with, as I don’t think kids under 13 should be on social media.
talking about most of them have a minimum of 16 but 13 is fair honestly its everywhere but i am 14
It’s 13 years on mine, if interested: peertube.wtf
Yeah i already signed up but my videos require approval i registered before this reply
Civvie 11 is a old head. How do I convince him?
What have you tried so far?
And while we’re at it, stop calling them ‘content creators’
EDIT: to clarify, my stance on this is that ‘content creator’ devalues the human endeavour behind a piece of work (or content, if you will). Instead it’s just slop for the machine, and who cares what it is as long as it gets numbers, right?
What is the alternative name for someone who creates content for a platform?
Well, we start by referring ta work not as “content”, but as what it actually is. Then work from there. For instance, one could ostensibly call Ahoy a filmmaker or a documentary maker.
Bruh that dude is a CONTENT CREATOR, not a filmmaker 😂🤣🤣
His internet videos are colourful animations meant to serve ads while capturing attention and summarizing Wikipedia articles giving some thoughts on them, and I love them, but it’s called content for a reason.
“Bruh” is not a strong opener to an argument
Bruh 💀
… Which is a type of content.
There’s a lot of content that doesn’t fit neatly into a category though, because it was made by someone turning on a camera and making a video without worrying about any commercial concerns. So calling someone like that a creator is a catch all term for anyone making content for a platform.
But don’t you think it’s a bit reductionist? We read books, not analogue text content. We eat meals, not nutritional content. We listen to songs, not rhythmic euphoria content. I don’t think it’s about commercial concerns - in fact, the term ‘content’ to refer to anything and everything is the ‘commercial’ way of putting it.
Someone hitting ‘record’ on a microphone and jamming on a guitar is still music. Why should we treat video any differently?
It’s a technical term, we may not use it in everyday conversation, but it is the correct term.
Do we need a general term? Someone who uploads their videos to a video platform is probably a “video producer”.
!!!
So what should we say when discussing people who make video, audio, text media?
I see their point about “content”, where, on YouTube, for example, it devalues the videos as subordinate to YouTube as a platform, but I think as people use the word “content” it loses that connotation.
video → video producer
audio → musician, podcaster, … depending on the type of audio
text media → author
So what word should we use when describing all of those people in one group?
I don’t have a very good answer to that either tbh; do we really need to do that so often?
Time wasters.
I’ll take the name Content Creator over Influencer any day.
Why? What else would we call them?
To answer the “why”, it’s because the word “content” is kinda meaningless. Instead of making films, documentaries, talk shows, reference guides, cartoons… it’s all just this generic “content” slop that’s just there to feed the machine
What a strange opinion.
It’s not that strange, I have a friend who literally said the same thing today in reference to one of his favourite channels shutting down. He preferred to call the stuff on this channel art, rather than content. I agree with the person above too, the term has always bugged me. It makes it sound so mass produced, like your job is to just produce meaningless “content” for people to mindlessly consume. And to be honest, that’s exactly what the mainstream YouTube culture is about.
I agree with this a lot. I really do not like the term “content”. It is like going to a recipe for some “slop”, like using a term that is just a catch all for everything tossed on a plate.
Art is great. Movies, music are also fine terms. And so is simply saying they made a video. Watering it all down to the term “content” is just so boring and mind numbing.
I mean, you don’t call it whatever you like, but content is the technical definition of it.
Not really. The term “content creator” is corporate speak. Google’s ad-based business model has a binary classification: content and ads. It’s not an inaccurate term, but using it implicitly endorses the corporation’s binary world view.
Words is funny sometimes.
Call them what they truely are. Digital panhandlers
That’s pretty insulting, a lot of what YouTube creators do takes real skill, and it’s a full time job for many.
In the past maybe, but certainly not these days. It’s overglorified corporate money grab propaganda, that goes around shamelessy guilt tripping viewers when truth is spoken. Much of these so-called content creators do not much else than making face react videos to something they saw and just talk about their likes or dislikes. They get paid lots just to make a soy-jack face and shitty clickbaits. The amount of money some them get paid is large sums insane for little efforts in proportion to what worth it actually ought to be. There people out there putting real efforts and labor to contributions to society to keep it running that paid squat in comparison. Its sad really. Go ahead downvote me, it doesn’t change the truth i speak.
Entertainers. Show women/men.
Not all content is entertaining. Someone who makes tutorials I wouldn’t call an entertainer. That’s why “content creator” is used as a catch all term to cover all of it.
Showman/woman refers to a pretty specific type of performer, I.E someone who is on stage typically.
Entertainer isn’t a label I’d necessarily apply to educational content, for example.
Then call them educators, or presenters… teachers, maybe, depending on the nature of their work
Yes it’s much better to use
“comedians/teachers/musicians/educators/entertianers/phonereviewers/sportscommenters/singers/journalists/programmers/documenters/analysts/lawyers/lockpickers/politicians/presenters/trolls”
… than…
“content creators”.
If you find someone that fits all those categories, I wouldn’t begrudge you that
What do you have against creators as a label? I don’t really see these difference myself.
Or just call them Content creators, recognize they don’t really produce value for anyone but YT’s grab on the attention economy and start living in the real world.
Show women/men sounds like a 70s porno “medical” exploitation film
Right. Call them youtubers! Wait…
Male/female adult online entertainer?
newpiped and freetube will continue to work but piped is also blocked as well
Doesn’t freetube use invidious api?
I can use invidious, but also works without it. Unless Google decides to mess with that too. Was broken for a few days like a month ago or smth
Freetube is still working on my machine as of today for what it’s worth.
It also has a local API
It directly pulls Videos from Google servers unlike Invidious U can use Invidious on it but I doubt it works so well
idk
For those who are want something similar to invidious, you can try youtube-local (not my project, I am just a user). It is a minimal python youtube client, and functions similar to other frontends, but runs locally. You lose some amount of privacy (youtube still has a general idea of who is watching with IPs), but it is not very exact, and there is an option to use tor to get the content. You can also enable sponsorblock, or hide yt-shorts.
