Influence? Certainly, basically any major power has the capacity to do that to some extent and the US has been a great power for over a century at this point. It doesn’t even need to be “the globe” in this case anyway though, Haiti isn’t all that far away relatively speaking, and the US has a history of meddling with smaller countries in Central America and the Caribbean going back to not too long after the founding of the country.
I never said nobody else was, just that Haiti in particular has a history that has seen the US act to hinder it’s development on a number of occasions. The same for that matter can be said of France in this case. My point was not that Haiti’s situation is the exclusive fault of the United States, but rather that the US does at least have some responsibility for how it has turned out.
My point was not that Haiti’s situation is the exclusive fault of the United States, but rather that the US does at least have some responsibility for how it has turned out.
Some responsibility is undeniable, but I think saying Haiti’s poverty is ‘largely though not entirely a result of the actions of the US’ is vastly overstating the role of the US in this particular scenario. I don’t think “The US refuses to intervene to buoy the junk debts acquired by US banks in the 1910s-40s” fundamentally changes the trajectory of Haiti’s history.
The US literally took over the country’s central bank, occupied the country for a period of over a decade, and forced it to pay a huge percentage of it’s national income for that period to US banks to repay a debt that it never fairly acquired in the first place (admittedly, one that the US had basically taken over from France, which had forced it on Haiti in the first place, which is one of the reasons I also named France as a contributor in one of these replies). The country was prevented from using this revenue to invest in itself for a significant chunk of time, and that kind of investment has compounding effects that would have made the country at least somewhat better off had it not been basically robbed of it’s income at gunpoint. As things like organized crime thrive under an environment of poverty and desperation, it isn’t that unreasonable to think that the gangs would be less severe a problem had this development been allowed to occur.
That would be much more compelling, except for the fact that Haiti was poor and unstable even before France imposed the debt, and that subsequent regimes, including US-friendly and US-hostile, did nothing to improve the situation. Haiti’s issues are far more fundamental than “The US reduced and redirected investment in the Haitian economy while extracting debts owed to US investors back in the 1910s-1940s”.
Obviously, this is ignoring the moral issue of the occupation of Haiti (which is, of course, an atrocity), as the discussion is currently centered around responsibility for modern Haitian poverty and instability.
The debt was imposed some 30 years after the Haitian Revolution, if memory serves. Taking on the (punitive and ridiculous) debt was the condition for France recognizing Haiti’s independence, though it had been de facto independent for a generation.
Unlike the people of Haiti. Or the Gangs of Haiti. Or the government of Haiti. Or any of Haiti’s neighboring countries. Or any of the other world super powers.
I did not say all, I said largely, and the reason for that is that the US has intervened more with Haiti in particular than it did in most countries, and in a way that stripped it of much of it’s wealth and ability to develop itself for a significant period of time.
I was not making some generic “America bad” comment here, I was trying to point out that Haiti in particular has a long and particularly negative history with the United States.
America has been operating under the belief of a “Unipolar world” seince it successfully toppled the USSR in the early 90’s. Before that, the US and the USSR operated as the 2 primary pole of the the then “multipolar world”. America has assisted with inserections against governments on most continents of the globe in order to install leadership that is more ‘friendly’ to its interests.
So yes, America has been the main cause of geopolitical conflict in the modern era. Before that it was England, Germany, France, Netherlands, etc.
The bearer of the Crown of Capital always comes soaked in blood
Maybe if you make this comment for a third time it’ll actually be funny! I will say, Mongols is funnier than Tiananman Square, but I think you can do better.
America is somehow powerful enough to control all nations on the globe at the same time.
Incredible.
Control? No
Influence? Certainly, basically any major power has the capacity to do that to some extent and the US has been a great power for over a century at this point. It doesn’t even need to be “the globe” in this case anyway though, Haiti isn’t all that far away relatively speaking, and the US has a history of meddling with smaller countries in Central America and the Caribbean going back to not too long after the founding of the country.
And as we all know, nobody else on the planet is influencing anything ever. It’s all a result of American influence.
Nazi Germany only happened because America didn’t conquer Germany in the 1890’s.
Russia invading Ukraine? Also, America. Gang violence in Haiti? America.
Tianamen Square? Believe it or not. America.
I never said nobody else was, just that Haiti in particular has a history that has seen the US act to hinder it’s development on a number of occasions. The same for that matter can be said of France in this case. My point was not that Haiti’s situation is the exclusive fault of the United States, but rather that the US does at least have some responsibility for how it has turned out.
Some responsibility is undeniable, but I think saying Haiti’s poverty is ‘largely though not entirely a result of the actions of the US’ is vastly overstating the role of the US in this particular scenario. I don’t think “The US refuses to intervene to buoy the junk debts acquired by US banks in the 1910s-40s” fundamentally changes the trajectory of Haiti’s history.
The US literally took over the country’s central bank, occupied the country for a period of over a decade, and forced it to pay a huge percentage of it’s national income for that period to US banks to repay a debt that it never fairly acquired in the first place (admittedly, one that the US had basically taken over from France, which had forced it on Haiti in the first place, which is one of the reasons I also named France as a contributor in one of these replies). The country was prevented from using this revenue to invest in itself for a significant chunk of time, and that kind of investment has compounding effects that would have made the country at least somewhat better off had it not been basically robbed of it’s income at gunpoint. As things like organized crime thrive under an environment of poverty and desperation, it isn’t that unreasonable to think that the gangs would be less severe a problem had this development been allowed to occur.
That would be much more compelling, except for the fact that Haiti was poor and unstable even before France imposed the debt, and that subsequent regimes, including US-friendly and US-hostile, did nothing to improve the situation. Haiti’s issues are far more fundamental than “The US reduced and redirected investment in the Haitian economy while extracting debts owed to US investors back in the 1910s-1940s”.
Obviously, this is ignoring the moral issue of the occupation of Haiti (which is, of course, an atrocity), as the discussion is currently centered around responsibility for modern Haitian poverty and instability.
Haiti didn’t exist before France’s debt AFAIK.
The debt was imposed some 30 years after the Haitian Revolution, if memory serves. Taking on the (punitive and ridiculous) debt was the condition for France recognizing Haiti’s independence, though it had been de facto independent for a generation.
Unlike the people of Haiti. Or the Gangs of Haiti. Or the government of Haiti. Or any of Haiti’s neighboring countries. Or any of the other world super powers.
America is the primary operator in Haiti.
Where did i suggest that none of this contributes? A thing can have more than one contributing cause.
Your very first comment where you cry its all America’s fault.
I did not say all, I said largely, and the reason for that is that the US has intervened more with Haiti in particular than it did in most countries, and in a way that stripped it of much of it’s wealth and ability to develop itself for a significant period of time. I was not making some generic “America bad” comment here, I was trying to point out that Haiti in particular has a long and particularly negative history with the United States.
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America has been operating under the belief of a “Unipolar world” seince it successfully toppled the USSR in the early 90’s. Before that, the US and the USSR operated as the 2 primary pole of the the then “multipolar world”. America has assisted with inserections against governments on most continents of the globe in order to install leadership that is more ‘friendly’ to its interests.
So yes, America has been the main cause of geopolitical conflict in the modern era. Before that it was England, Germany, France, Netherlands, etc.
The bearer of the Crown of Capital always comes soaked in blood
Lord.
The Wikipedia article about US-backed regime change is so long that it has the following disclaimer at the top
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Maybe if you make this comment for a third time it’ll actually be funny! I will say, Mongols is funnier than Tiananman Square, but I think you can do better.
The truth was, they could not do better.
Wow, with humor this good, I see I was outclassed.
Sorry yall my B.
What?