I’m not a dog breed expert, but…
The other day an agressive dog that looked like a pitbull, suddenly lunged at me barking loudly… It was about 10ft away from me but still scared the shit out of me
The owner yanked the dog back on its leash and i thought, “FML, the only thing that saved me from a deadly mauling was a 3/4 inch wide piece of nylon with a metal clip the guy bought off amazon for $5”
“But my little velvet hippo couldn’t hurt anyone!”
Hippos are super aggressive, territorial, and will bite a crocodiles in half. It’s amazing that’s supposed to be a cute, disarming nickname for a breed notorious for the same traits.
It’s also the most deadliest land mammal, the hippo that is.
To be fair most won’t, but they definitely can and do.
Especially when they are jaws on legs that are more inclined compared to other dogs.
Yup. I’ve crunched the numbers before, and it’s something like 1 in 10,000 pit bulls will attack a human or other companion animal every year. It’s not likely for any given pit to attack a person (which I can anecdotally support–they’re obnoxiously friendly and loving in my experience), but it’s also like 10 times more than the next most vicious breed. In my opinion, it’s not worth euthanizing every member of the breed, but it is worth neutering every one. We don’t need dog breeds, especially ones responsible for over half of the violent attacks on people and other animals.
Of course, I’m in support of neutering all companion animals to reduce the stray population and ease the strain on shelters, regardless of breed or species. Breed specific laws are only one step towards fixing the larger problem.
Of course, I’m in support of neutering all companion animals to ease the stray population and the strain on shelters, regardless of breed or species. Breed specific laws are only one step towards fixing the larger problem.
Bob Barker is smiling down on you from heaven for this
Don’t you think that pit bull attacks are dangerous and cause medical trauma which leads to reporting of the attack? I think it’s likely that they don’t attack people more than any other dog breed. I was bit by a black lab mix. I didn’t report it to anyone. If it had been a pit bull I probably would have needed medical attention.
It’s actually not the strongest bite. And not the only breed with a locking jaw. It is the breed with a reputation though…
As you’ve pointed out the dogs are perfectly capable of being lovey couch potatoes. The problem isn’t the dog it’s the people. The breed has a reputation. And the people who like that are just going to move on to the next breed after this one is gone.
You literally looked at the numbers they produced, ignored that and locked onto a tiny portion of their comment.
You, ma’am, are not arguing in good faith.
If only we could use statistics to cull people, too.
The actual issue is that’s it’s a degenerative disease in dogs of similar breeds. At some point they get old and less able to recognize friend from foe. That might be ok if it weren’t for the jaws you mentioned.
Exactly.
I’d go one step farther and even say if they even had the same amount of attacks as other dogs, had no possible mental diseases, and all want to caring homes I would still put restrictions/ban on them.
They are just too large to handle, too big of a bite to brush off, and end up in dog attacks a lot. That’s enough for me.
I’m gonna need a source on that.
Cerebellar Cortical Disintegration or Degenerative Myelopathy could exacerbate a situation.
I unexpectedly found this on the genetic mapping of aggression which seemed interesting: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4977763/
That’s a great article…
However the only examples of aggression being related to breed is with Daschands and Yorkies, although the study says that’s likely just to that specific gene also making legs shorter.
While there is a genetic component to aggression, it’s variation is pretty standard amongst all dogs, except the tiny ones who may have accidentally been selected for it.
But someone asked you for a source for a cognitive thing and you just randomly linked an article about how breed doesn’t determine behavior?
Did you know what that article was about before you linked it?___
However, it is also notable that a subset of large breeds carries the chrX reduced-fear/aggression and increased-size variants in perfect LD.
I know reading is hard, friend! I linked that as it was the most interesting thing I found while looking off there were other degenerative diseases common in pitbulls, while not being pitbull specific. Did you think me finding evidence contrary to my beliefs would result in me hiding it?
I’d give you snarky “let me Google that for you” on the degenerative diseases as they’re genuinely interesting, but I guess you’ll never know what they’re about since you can type a comment but not use a search engine.
It’s funny they call them hippos considering that hippos are extremely dangerous and vicious wild animals.
And hippos too are known to turn on their human caretakers out of nowhere.
That’s funny because hippos kill more people than dogs
13000 vs 500 a year. So not really close. But hippos are more dangerous than most people think!
In total? Doubt it.
A shitbull owner using a leash, rare combination.
I was walking my dog through my neighborhood once, and one of my stupid ass neighbors had his dog loose in his garage with the door open across the street. When it saw me, it charged at us, barking aggressively. It didn’t attack me, it just stood a few feet away baring its teeth and barking while his overweight owner waddled over to it armed with a sandle. I think it was a labrador.
If it was a pitbull though I’d likely be missing a limb or two today.
not if that is sarcasm or not, but most likely there was no pitull in that that dog.
Based on what?
many many studies have shown that people can breeds apart.
not sarcasm at all…
regardless of breed, this dog looked like he was about to fuck up my whole day, so my point stands
blame the owner not the dog
Blame both if the dog is a known dangerous breed.
Unsurprising. Large “power breeds” like pit bulls I have always found questionable to have.
No restrictions or licenses? No muzzles at least?
A good thing they banned them.
Though I still dislike the outright malice and hate I see when a pit bull in a photo might be doing nothing but staring at a sunset. A bit hate crazy.
Yup. The vast, vast majority of pit bulls legitimately are the lovable dorks that their owners say they are. I’ve lived with several of them, I would know. It’s just hard to reconcile statistics with personal experience, so people who own only know the statistics tend to disregard the latter, and people who own pits tend to disregard the former.
Thanks for all the downvotes! It feels just like reddit again :)
If you’re a dog owner and you’re paying attention, then your personal experience should include the following truth: any dog can go postal. If you then combine this with the knowledge that pitbulls are much more deadly than other dogs when being agressive, then you must reach the conclusion that this breed should be banned, even though that is admittedly a sad conclusion.
Pitbulls are not the deadliest dog out there. Not by a long shot. They’re just the ones people like to make aggressive.
Except they are, though. They’re bred to be as deadly as possible. This is a verifiable fact.
I’ve been a dog owner, and know many dog owners, and have never personally known someone whose dog went “postal,” including the many pit bulls I’ve met and the several that I’ve lived with.
I know a handful of pits who have bitten and severely injured people. For your positive anecdote there is a negative to match.
Statistically, for every negative anecdote, there are about 1,000 positive anecdotes
Technically it is disengenuous to say statistically and then make up a statistic
I didn’t make it up. Given the number of pit bull attacks on humans and other animals every year in the US (because that’s where I found the data), and the number of pit bulls in the US, roughly 1 in 10,000 pit bulls will attack someone or something in a given year. Assuming an average lifespan of roughly 10 years, there’s a roughly 1 in 1,000 chance that a given pit bull will ever attack a human or animal.
i am a dog owner, and know many dog owners, and have personally known 2 neighbors who lost pets due to pits who went ‘postal’
anecdotes gunna anecdote
Can this possibly be true?
If a dog switches to aggressive mode and stops listening to commands, trying to attack (another dog, a cat, a deer, a bird, a human) that’s what I mean by “going postal”. In most cases they are restrained on leash. The outcome, and the target (for the sake of this argument) are not important. It is not possible to predict accurately when they will do this.Ok. I guess by that definition my family’s black lab has “gone postal.” I’ve never met a pit bull that ever did, though
I mean that’s fairly obvious from subtext. If you had, you would most likely be too traumatised to be defending them on an online forum.
by that logic you would ban every dog on the planet
Every dog on the planet is more aggressive than all other dogs on the planet?
Each more similar than the last!
Well surely it’s a spectrum that people are advocating an arbitrary line be placed on. Once this breed is gone, what about the next most aggressive breed? They then become the most aggressive breed and there’ll be calls to weed them out too. Dogs kill more humans than any other non-human vertebrate in the world by a very long shot - getting rid of one breed isn’t going to reduce that number to zero.
To clarify, I’m not against the move of banning the breed at all, I’m just acutely aware that it’s making an arbitrary distinction.
Pitbulls are deadlier than all other breeds combined. They are 10 times as deadly as the next most aggressive breed. You don’t need to pull out the slippery slope fallacy, when the line is very clearly at pitbulls.
Dogs kill more humans than any other non-human vertebrate in the world by a very long shot
I looked into this, based on some other comments. Turns out it’s snakes. Various sources list dogs at between 13,000 and 35,000 deaths per year, and snakes in a range of 75,000-100,000.
Edit: but if we’re talking one species, dogs might edge out the deadliest snake. Really hard to say, based on the data I was able to find.
That is not a good argument, it is dishonest and disingenuous.
You’re actually using the same logic people used to try and avoid gay marriage.
I like to use statistics to decide what creatures should be destroyed.
Like the Nazis.
People with access to verifiable data overlook the appearance of safety to express a legitimate concern about a breed that’s demonstrably more likely to kill? What dorks!
No. People who spend all their time online and have never interacted with a pit bull in real life tend to overlook the fact that 999 out of 1,000 pit bulls will never attack someone, and that 999 out of every 1,000 pit bull owners aren’t lying about their dogs being good.
Thank you for providing an example of someone who completely disregards the latter!
My childhood pitbull bit me in the face and I have permanent face scarring from it. I had to get 60+ stitches to reconstruct my face.
It’s not a valid point to say “most don’t attack people” when the breed is much more likely to attack a person compared to other breeds. Then it’s made worse by the fact they’ve been bred to be extra good at attacking.
I’m sorry you were attacked by a pit bull. I’ve already acknowledged that they’re both more likely to attack people than any other breed, and more dangerous when they do. I’m just trying to balance out the undue hate for them as an entire breed. Given the comments on any post relating to the breed, one would think that every pit bull, or at least the majority of pit bulls, are violent, when that’s far from the case.
Just stop. You can’t even put a decent argument together and you aren’t helping anyone. Please, just stop.
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That’s not just Pitbull behavior though. That’s called prey drive and a lot of breeds have that. Some everyone expects like Greyhounds and Bulldogs. But it’s also present in breeds like Golden Retrievers, Bassett Hounds, and Irish Setters. Are we going to ban Golden’s next? They can also feature the fun perk, protectiveness, where they go after anyone who gets close to their human. And any dog can become reactive.
I’ll take the dogs that are less prone to “prey drive” thank you very much. You don’t really see Goldens or Bassetts mauling small creatures or humans.
Tbh amstaffs are quite low on the prey drive. Small terriers, dachshunds, schnauzers, pointers, setters and dalmatians on the other hand have a very big prey drive.
I mean, they are not called hunting dogs, retriever, setter or pointers for nothing. And small terriers have for centuries been bred to kill every rat, mice and what have you in their vincinity.
But yeah, in the end all dogs are predators. And if you let them go unchecked bad things will happen. Especially when you have a powerful breed.
Cats do the same BTW. But for some reason we’re OK with dead mice and birds around the house.
All in all its the same discussion as with guns (and cars): guns don’t kill people, people kill people. And with dogs it’s more or less the same: bad or owners who are Inattentive will Allmost always result in big problems.
And while I do love amstaffs, they can be such chill and fun hunks of love, I can’t deny that they do real damage, more damage when left unchecked and we should probably regulate ownership like with guns and cars.
I do not think outright banning a breed is the solution. Because other breeds are just as susceptible to bad ownership. It will not solve it. The problem will just move away from amstaffs back too rottweilers and dobermans. Or another big powerful breed.
Like with guns we should make it harder for the assholes to acquire one. And like with cars you should prove yourself to be able to take care of one.
Every couple of weeks I feed mine a toddler, it seems to keep the violent tendencies away.
Dog breeds all exist for a purpose either still relevant or now redundant.
Before you get a dog, understand what that breed exists for. Even the best obedience training may not overcome generations of refined and selected natural instincts.
It’s never the dogs fault. It is always your fault.
Whoa grab some popcorn folks cause this comment section is a dumpster fire. Do we have a lemmy drama community yet?
How is it a dumpster fire? I don’t see anyone defending the breed.
You summoned one!
I think we should genocide every dog because any dog is more dangerous than no dogs.
That’s because this isn’t a breed specific problem. Unless that breed is Human. Humans can fuck up any dog on purpose or not and the shitbags who like this breed specifically because it has a reputation will just choose a new breed to fuck up after you ban this one. This has been the pattern of Breed Specific Legislation everywhere it’s been introduced. You can do all of the same aggressive training with a Golden Retriever. And the list of dogs known to have a protective streak is as long as my arm.
That is hilarious. But there is a real problem here. It’s like we just transferred systemic racism to dogs. We create the problem in the stats and then blame the dogs that were abused to do it.
It’s like we just transferred systemic racism to dogs.
I actually saved this into a list of ignorant comments I keep. Is easily top ten material. Comparing the banning of pit bulls to the result of the slave trade is a hell of a comment. Congratulations?
Not to say I agree with him but he didn’t compare those two things at all. He said it’s the same mentality that underlies racism and ‘breedism’ for lack of a better word.
I have a dream where Pitbulls and Chihuahuas can play in the same dog park together.
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I do wonder how much is the breed and how much is shitty owners being attracted to perceived scary breeds. My guess would be a bit of both.
You don’t need to train a pointer puppy to point. They do it from birth. You don’t need to train a sheep dog to herd. They do it from the moment they can walk. You don’t need to teach a pit bull to latch and shake. They also do that from birth. Training can mitigate the risk, but they’re still very dangerous dogs.
Literally every breed with a prey drive does the death shake. And they aren’t the only ones with locking jaws either. This is very much a problem of shitty people who like the reputation.
If that logic holds true than pure American pitbull terriers should actually be the safest dogs to own in regards to people. Pitbulls where bred for dog fighting, but even more specifically they were bred to not bite the handlers. As getting a dog to fight is just a matter of time and selection, but getting a dog to fight only dogs and not people is something much more difficult and valuable, at the time.
But, that was many, many years ago. And the breed has been bred and bred and inbred and bred again. An American pitbull terrier average weight is about 35 to 60 lbs. Average. 35 is no bigger than an average corgi. With 60 at the high end being a small golden or average chow.
These XL bully breeds aren’t pitbulls. Hell, even pitbulls now days aren’t pitbulls. They are a mix of staffy, mastiff, American bull dogs, English bulldogs, and random other terriers. And then sold as designer breeds like the American bully with no regard for behavior, temperament, or loyalty.
They were trained for fighting. Hard stop.
Just so happens their normal sport was fighting dogs.
Literally no.
In the past I’d say it’s a bit of both, though moreso the type of shitheads attracted to ‘scary’ breeds is also as likely to be shit at training/ socialising them. There’s some good evidence though that this particular ‘XL’ breed has higher rates of inbreeding and has already been selected for agression (not to mention their increased size & power).
Think it’s a fair point some are making though that just banning the latest dangerous breed is missing the wood for the trees. There should be serious penalties from any dog attack, for the owner; treat it the same as possession of a dangerous weapon like a gun or zombie knife.
It’s bit of both. These morons aren’t lining up to buy daschunds.
There’s a story that a family dog got loose after a car crash. They found the dog a few days later … herding sheep. No one ever taught the dog to herd sheep.
Pitbull?
The article I found says border collie and red heeler.
Dog ejected from vehicle in Idaho crash found two days later herding sheep
You need to go one step further - why do people feel the need to own such dogs in the first place? Some people would say the dog is for protection (from who? And why are those people a threat? It’s well known that lack of social and communal services lead to young people ending up involved with gangs and violence), others use it as a status symbol (don’t even get me started on consumerism, and commodification of natural shit like animals), and in almost all cases there is a lot of toxic masculinity involved.
These are all deep rooted systemic issues that go far beyond both dogs and owners (don’t get me wrong - I am not excusing bad dog ownership, and don’t think people should be raising violent and aggressive dogs), and they all need addressing to actually resolve the problem, but it’s much easier for those in charge to focus on the end result, and make it an individual issue, they don’t care about making society better, they just want power and money.
Not arguing here, all your points are correct, just sharing why I have a big scary dog. He’s half GSD, quarter american pit (not xl) and quarter American staffordshire. I got him for two reasons, 1) I have a first floor patio in a bad neighborhood and he’s got a great guard insinct, and 2) he’s a big baby and makes a great emotional support animal (ptsd anxiety and ASD). I don’t need protection, I just need a buddy to scare off the crackheads who have tried to walk into my appartment just because I wanted some fresh air and left the door open. He loves everyone, but oh boy if I don’t let you in myself you’re in for one hell of time. I’ve raised dogs all my life, knew what I wanted, and what I was getting into. That is unfortunately not the case 90% of the time and it pisses me off when I see it. Honestly I would love to require people get a liscense to own a dog (let alone have children)
Honestly I would love to require people get a liscense to own a dog
That’s the case in Germany, depending on state and breed. With what I heard about US dogs and their utter lack of training (e.g. not being able to lie under a table under a restaurant and chill) you should probably make it universal, though.
(let alone have children)
…that’s not going to happen. How about teaching pedagogy and developmental psychology in school, say ages 14 to 16, start of the “seeing kids as kids” age. Speaking of, domestic animal psychology is actually a great topic for biology, doesn’t need to go into depth but some fundamental stuff about cats and dogs so that people are less likely to misinterpret what they see should easily fit the curriculum.
I mean, awful people definitely own all kinds of breeds, but there’s only one breed that I’ve seen attack and nearly kill horses
Horses are fragile as fuck. Let’s talk about dogs that were bred to kill bears. Oh but wait they didn’t get a street rep and a million shitty owners abusing them. Alaskan Malamutes were bred to help with Polar Bears, they get to about 100 pounds, have a very strong bite, and a big independent streak making them harder to train. Oh yeah and they come with a warning about being around children.
What’s the difference in the actual breeds? The Malamute is giant fluffball. The Pitbull has many manly muscles.
Ive seen people attack and kill buffalo. We should kill whichever breed of people do that.
The problem is that there’s no way to tell a bad owner from a good one, which is how we end up in situations like this. I’ve almost had my throat torn out as I made my way to the bus stop because a very submissive owner couldn’t control his dommy gshep, which was lunging and straining at the leash in order to kill me.
I love sheps and have met some extremely good owners, but they are few and far between compared to the jackasses who bring their Rottweilers into bars, where the dog goes absolutely ballistic and starts making kill noises at everyone until the owner has to leave the bar. And that happened last month, lol.
most people that know how to train dogs have perfectly well behaved dogs, of course they’re always going to be animals at the end of the day but we shouldn’t be surprised when they act out either
In the case of decent owners probably 50/50. Bad owners more like 10/90 (dog/owner).
oh oh I read a study answering that.
It depends on behavior. They found high correlation between breed and how many time they turned around before laying down. Certain common trip like sit or come. But not aggressive behavior. They highest correlation for that was back ground. Dog from the streets or abusive backgrounds. Followed by a small correlation with genetics, which is not the same as breed.
Breed did have anything to do with aggression. Also most people can’t tell a pitbull from other dogs, and studies that look at dog attacks only rely on the victim just saying what breed attacked them
Good. Too bad more countries aren’t doing this.
We regulate cars pretty heavily, we regulate guns decently.
When it comes to dogs, across the entire world, literally crickets chirping. No government does anything.
I think there are some strict laws in Germany when it comes to dog ownership.
There’s a whole bunch of countries where they wouldn’t even think of regulating them as pets because dogs are purely working animals or feral.
There’s a whole bunch of countries where they wouldn’t even think of regulating them as pets because dogs are purely working animals or feral.
Don’t stop there, champ. Which countries?
13 dog breeds and mixed breeds are banned in Denmark: https://en.foedevarestyrelsen.dk/animals/animal-welfare/danish-legislation-on-dogs as one example.
My neighbor has a pit mix and it snarled at me gnashing its teeth once as she walked by. I was just standing there by my car minding my own business barely even acknowledging them. I jump and yell Jesus wtf lady omg. She just made pathetic excuses, he keeps me safe, never does that, it’s fiiiiine etc. Ive told her numerous times she needs to train it at the bare minimum, preferably destroy it. I’ve observed it doing the same to other people as they walk past. I bought pepper spray and look out for them very carefully whenever I go to my car now. I bet it’s just a matter of time before someone gets mauled and I hope it’s not me. Fucking hate those things.
After watching my cop neighbor try to drive a dog away with pepper spray, it’s not going to help much. Even direct hits to the eyes didn’t seem to affect the dog much.
Oof, noted, thanks. I figured it’s a decent last resort but I guess not. Vigilance and avoidance are the best bet as usual. I’m not quite ready to buy a handgun over this.
That’s the owners fault. Probably is an asshole that mistreets the poor pup so that’s all it knows. Don’t you dare fucking blame the dog. You’re an asshole.
I get harassed by my asshole neighbors asshole dog and I’m the asshole here?! You’re funny, fuck off, lmao 🤣
Hahahaha troll better, loser
sorry you experienced that, it’s a poor owner, not a bad breed. we have a staffy mix that’s an adorable mutt, great dog.
Do you agree that retrievers are bred to retrieve things?
Do you agree that herding dogs are bred to herd things?
Do you agree that pointer dogs are bred to find things?
Surely you’ve been around these kinds of dogs before. It’s not something that they learn; they are specifically bred to do a job and they will do that job even without training. You’ve seen or heard of how a sheepdog will herd small children, I’m sure. It’s why the breed exists; they are specifically bred to do a certain thing and genetically their instinct is to do the thing that they were bred for over the course of thousands of years. You can remove them from their mom and not give them any training and they will naturally do the thing that they were bred to do. You don’t have to train a golden to bring you back a ball.
So is it a surprise that a dog bred to kill things will want to kill things?
That’s not simply because of “a poor owner”, although the fact that people refuse to train their killer dogs to not be killers is part of it. It’s because their dogs are genetically predisposed to kill, just like a pointer dog is genetically predisposed to find things.
It is absolutely a bad breed. Killer dogs should be banned worldwide. Every single pitbull, rottweiler, etc. should be spayed/neutered and the breed should end. They’re too dangerous and dumb owners have proven that you can’t rely on humans to keep them under control.
It’s not the dogs’ fault, mind - it’s their instinct. But that doesn’t mean that future generations should have to deal with it.
They’re too dangerous and dumb owners have proven that you can’t rely on humans to keep them under control.
That’s why we have laws in Germany that say that if dogs of certain breeds don’t pass character tests they have to be muzzled, and you might need a license (as in driving license) and a certificate of conduct.
States tend to put American Staffordshire-Terriers (and therefore Bullies) in the harshest category, Rottweilers get off way easier.
Those two breeds are nowhere close to comparable when it comes to aggressiveness. Rottweilers aren’t inherently aggressive, on the contrary they’re exceptionally chill and have a high anger threshold. But they’re also protective and if you aren’t chill yourself they will quickly become to think of themselves as the pack leader.
Rottweilers are about as easy or hard to mess up a German Shepherds, it’s just that messing up passively becomes more dangerous as they’ll become overprotective, see imagined threats because you imagine them, suchlike. If you want to see a breed with inherent anger issues that’d be the Chihuahua.
Yeah Rottweilers are herding dogs, they herd children too and just love leaning into you. Herd dogs also protect their pack so they do need training and an owner who knows what they’re doing on top of extensive socialising.
This is exactly what they are complaining about 😛
Bullshit. You think shitbulls got their reputation from thin air? Shit dogs for shit owners.
Hey look, someone with a shitty troll username making shitty troll comments.
Not at all a troll username - it is a new account, but I don’t like making up usernames so I just keyboard mash. I stand by everything I say though.
Edit. I looked through your comment history. Bit hypocritical to accuse others of trolling with comments like that.
Copy pasted comments that are totally in good faith:
If only we could use statistics to cull people, too.
I think we should genocide every dog because any dog is more dangerous than no dogs.
I just think we should be consistant. If we’re using statistics to cull creatures, racists are going to have a field day.
They are poor misbreeds anyway.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
A ban on American bully XL dogs was already being looked at after shocking footage emerged of an attack in Birmingham last weekend that left an 11-year-old girl with serious injuries.
South Yorkshire Police reported four separate dog attacks on children in two days, including one where a 15-year-old was taken to hospital after being savaged by an XL bully in Sheffield.
Any ban should be based on “robust evidence”, a spokeswoman for the coalition said - adding it was “deeply concerned” by the “lack of data behind this decision and its potential to prevent dog bites”.
But there is concern a move to prohibit the animal may not be practical due to the American XL bully not being recognised as a breed by the Kennel Club, which could mean any ban may inadvertently outlaw other kinds of dogs.
As head of the Merseyside force back in 2007, he had introduced such a measure following the death of five-year-old Ellie Lawrenson, who was mauled by a banned pitbull-type dog at her grandmother’s home in St Helens on New Year’s Day.
In a joint statement, Bully Watch, the Campaign for Evidence Based Regulation of Dangerous Dogs (CEBRDD) and Protect Our Pets claimed the breed was a “a clear and present threat to public health”.
The original article contains 976 words, the summary contains 213 words. Saved 78%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
This probably wont be the last breed they ban…
They’re just gonna keep playing whack a mole with whatever breed is popular among people who like to abuse dogs until they’re aggressive. You can breed for temperament but you can’t eliminate bad temperament by banning breeds. The bully xl is itself a hybrid of a breed that was already banned in the UK for aggression.
They’re just gonna keep playing whack a mole with whatever breed is popular among people who like to abuse dogs until they’re aggressive. You can breed for temperament but you can’t eliminate bad temperament by banning breeds.
True,
It won’t be.
People that want an aggressive dog, buy the dog with the reputation to be the most aggressive, then they raise them to be aggressive.
Ban pitbulls, and they’ll go back to buying rottweilers, which are usually bigger and stronger too.
Just wait till they get to Malinois…five years ago you never saw them outside of law enforcement and military…now im starting to see them in shelters…
It’s becoming more common to see police departments ban Malligators. Less predictable than GSD.
Any dog can be aggressive, yes. Most pits have great personalities, sure. But I’ve known a few pits that weren’t aggressive towards people. Until they were.
The owner problem is a real factor (owners who are likely to raise aggressive dogs are more likely to get pits), but there’s an extra layer to pits. They are raised to be muscular with very strong jaws. If a Yorkie turns on it’s owner, someone’s getting bloody ankles. A pit (and chow, and Rottweiler) can really hurt people.
On top of this, there’s two types of aggression in dogs: performative aggression with barking and short charges, and prey drive which is quiet staring and sudden lunges towards the throat of another dog or animal. I was under the impression for a long time that dangerous dogs had terrible tempers and were “grouchy”. No, dangerous dogs are social creatures like most dogs and many show affection to other pets and humans, until something triggers their prey instinct. The website I cite below has a statement that pits are less likely to act aggressive before an attack.
There were a string of dog deaths in my city last year. All pits. Two were family pets that both attacked their toddler playing in the family’s yard. The mom ran to help and the dogs attacked her and their infant. Both children died and the mom was hospitalized. And a friend of mine had to mace a dog doing his job last year for the first time, it was a pit. Anecdotal, I know, but it’s changed my mind on pits.
This group says 69% of dogs involved in fatal attacks in 2019 were pits: https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2019.php
One 2019 fatality was from 8 different breeds. This means that if you flip that statistic around to “percentage of fatal attacks involving pits”, that number is even higher.
Pits are estimated to be 6.5% of American dogs.
If you lumped every retriver into a single group, they’d have a lot more bites.
As a pitbull owner, I may take my chances trying to subdue an aggressive PB. An agressive Rot, I’m climbing trees.
Growing up a neighbor had three Rottweilers that they let run free.
They mostly stayed on their property, but every once and a while they’d come down to my house. Usually because they were following a deer’s trail, so their prey drive was in full gear by the time they’d see me and my sister playing outside.
Rotts get up to like 120lbs on average, but some are even bigger. So out of nowhere we’d have these three massive dogs that were bigger than us, sprinting at us barking their heads off.
We weren’t good tree climbers, so we got one of those wooden playhouse things you had to climb a ladder to get in.
I still don’t think we should ban them, but I think most people agree dogs shouldn’t be free roam.
Barking is a performative aggression. It’s meant to intimidate. Predatory attacks frequently don’t have warning barks. It’s quiet staring then a lunge.
The behavior you described sounds dangerous, but it’s a known thing (that doesn’t make it less dangerous, but does give opportunity to blame the owner that they should have known they had an aggressive dog). Terrible owners don’t correct this behavior and have dogs that are dangerous to people. But there are many dogs that show zero aggression before attacking. There’s a bunch of biased sources but I think there is some truth to it, nearly half of dogs that kill have not shown aggression towards humans before.
Side note: Rottweilers are the #2 killer dog breed in America. They average about 10% of all fatal attacks. Pits are the #1 killer dog breed. The past couple of years they’ve been 65%+ of fatal attacks.
My dream is everyone eventually learns what “per capital” means and how important it is compared to total numbers…
I have a rottie. If someone told me she bit them, I’d want to know what the hell they did to make her bite them. She’s never shown any aggression.
Rottweilers are chill as fuck with a very high anger threshold but also have a very strong protective streak and the build to back it up. That can go haywire if the owner is an idiot, paranoid, or such. If she recognises you as pack leader and you’re not then there’s not really much to worry, though some German states require character tests for all Rottweilers or they have to wear muzzles. If something like that is available where you are I’d definitely recommend it, they’re a working breed consider it vocational training.
And they can growl like fucking Cerberus. Why bite when a little intimidation does the trick.
Because the only time breed is correlated for aggression is tiny terriers, but that was likely due to the same gene making legs shorter. It’s really hard to breed for/against aggression, but it’s easy to breed for stuff like stubby legs.
The difference is size. A 120lb aggressive dog is more dangerous than a 60lb aggressive dog
Not knocking Rots, as a breed. Beautiful animals with a lot of love to give.
My old doggo mastiff/ unknow race mix doesnt like to be patted upon i earned peiple not doing that b4 getting closer to my doggo
She doesnt bite but give some kind of soft bite to warn
I wont tell the amount of people thinking my doggo is petable whose beeen bitten off including careless childrens at dog park
To each their behavior
Surelly blast me but my doggo is my bodyguard for some reason
Idiot
Part of the problem is it isn’t a breed.
Part of the order (request? whatever it is) is to define the breed first. Which makes the rest seem pretty reactionary. Not far off from saying “ban dogs I find scary”.
A lot of that is selective breeding. Humans add a ton of extra stuff to breed, but groups of breeds are not as arbitrary. Pointers have been bred for bird hunting, shepherds for livestock, retrievers for waterfowl, terriers for small game hunting. Bulldogs were bred for 150+ years to attack bulls, bears, and other dogs (until animal welfare laws banned dog fighting). Further division of breeds (like rat terrier vs feist) is arbitrary and doesn’t represent anything meaningful genetically.
My opinion is that bulldog / terrier mixes (like the pit) represent a greater risk to humans than the average dog. I don’t think it’s anything unique to the pit, which has a lot of media hysteria. The data look so bad for pits because they are so popular. If Staffordshires were more popular in America, they’d show up in the stars more.
The name “pit bull terrier” did originate from bull terriers used in professional dog fighting. Dogs would fight in a pit. Until animal cruelty laws became a thing.
Just being upfront: I wouldn’t own a pit due to the number of instances of friends having a pit that is the “nicest dog ever” and it randomly attacked them one day. I also extend this to Persian cats, btw. But we can’t ban particular breeds. Punish bad owners, continue selectively breeding dogs to reduce aggression.
Extreme example: Adults who were abused as children are more likely to be child abusers themselves. Should we ban people who were beaten by their parents from being teachers? They are statistically more likely to abuse children.
This article was interesting, and suggested that there could be a specific issue with the breeding lines of the XLs in the UK. Worth a read for anyone who’s actually interested in reading further than a headline.
“Garbage dogs for garbage people”
