The bodies of 109 Palestinians including 23 children and 11 women were taken to Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital, and spokesperson Khalil Degran told the Associated Press that more than 100 wounded also arrived to the hospital. In addition, he said the rest of the 210 Palestinians killed were taken to Al-Awda Hospital after the spokesman said he spoke to the director there. But the numbers at that hospital could not be confirmed by the AP.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed to continue the war until all hostages are freed, but Bassem Naim, a senior Hamas official now based in Lebanon, struck a drastically different tone.
“The horrific massacre committed today by Netanyahu and his fascist government against the Palestinian people in Gaza, which led to slaughter of 210 and more than 400 wounded so far — under the pretext of liberating those detained by the resistance — confirms what the resistance has said repeatedly: that Netanyahu doesn’t plan to reach an agreement to stop the war and free the captured Israelis peacefully,” Naim said, according to the Associated Press.
“In international news, the equivalent of five Americans were killed in Afghanistan today”
– The Onion, 2008
Well all those people definitely weren’t just civilians. Why would civilians be holding hostages? That means those people were combats. That’s a good thing then.
While not all of them were combatants, it only makes sense that Hamas would hold civilians in direct danger because they can’t win otherwise. IDF would wipe the floor with Hamas in direct conflict as Israel’s military power is far greater than Hamas, so Hamas is resorting to using civilians to prevent military action around their territory. Hamas then can use this against Israel in a lawfare sense when netanyahu attacks.
The issue ultimately is the intentional presence of civilians in these active military areas. Normally you wouldn’t bomb schools, but when Hamas sets up shop in these typically protected areas and starts launching missiles from them they start losing that protection. This is a win-win for Hamas, they can call Israel out for being reckless if they’re attacked and use down time to recuperate when Israel is restrained. Though, if you can’t win without subjecting your own people to your own deliberate war crimes, I think you have an obligation to surrender, you clearly don’t have your own people’s interest at heart.
So, sure one could say “what else is Hamas supposed to do? They’re outgunned, how else are they supposed to fight?” Answer is you don’t. Hamas shouldn’t have attacked in October and made the choice to subsequently hide behind civilians, they should surrender for the better of Palestinians.
There’s nowhere else for Hamas to set up. There’s civilians in all of Gaza. It’s an extremely densely populated region, even more so now that it’s being cleared and destroyed. Second, Hamas was created in response to Israeli aggression that already existed. Surrendering would just bring them to the status quo that inspired the First Intifada, when Palestinians were still being attacked, killed, restricted, oppressed, and their land steadily taken for more than 20 years already. People don’t respond well to that and to expect them to sit there and being slowly ethnically cleansed again is unrealistic. The correct take is to oppose Israel and it’s settler colonialism.
If you actually think this is a settler vs native thing you are cherry picking your history lessons.
It sounds like the opposite. Do you even know what Zionism is? It’s calling for a place Jews from all over the world can go via. They bring in people from all over the world, lots of them have dual citizenships. Because Jewish people can trace genealogic origins there from thousands of years ago doesn’t make some lady from Europe or New York the same as some local Palestinian kid at all. They then kick out the natives and give their homes to these settlers. They’ve been doing it since the 40’s. People can look over the wall and see where they, their parents, or their grandparents used to live.
I recommend looking up the history of Zionism, including the European Jews that forwarded it, like Theodore Herzl, and the different places they considered for it (Uganda,Argentina, Cyprus, etc) before settling on Palestine.
Don’t cherry pick now. Go farther back.
The original homeland of the Jewish people is the region historically known as the Land of Israel, also referred to as Canaan, and later as Palestine. This area is located in the modern-day state of Israel, as well as parts of the Palestinian territories (the West Bank and Gaza Strip), and parts of neighboring countries such as Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria. Historically significant cities in this region include Jerusalem, Hebron, and Bethlehem.
But with that logic, my friends have the right to go to Italy and Ireland, kick out native Italians and Irish and take their houses, because they’re Italian-American or Irish-American. That’s not how it works or how it should work. Its the same reason I wouldn’t have supported the Liberia project of having African-Americans go back to Africa and kick out and oppress the natives just because they were mistreated in the US, if I was alive at the time. It led to centuries of indigenous oppression and civil wars, like Israel and Palestine nowadays. We shouldn’t be looking to imitate that level of colonial superiority anywhere else.
Considering that hummus was sitting on civilians for literal decades knowing it’ll tie Israel’s hands, it about time the message got sent that those tactics won’t fly. I’m glad at least some of the hostages made it home safely.
The people killed had families, friends, who will be raging for revenge, bolstering the ranks of organizations like Hamas.
Hamas won this one, they don’t care how many Palestinians die, they want more people hating Jews. The people who lost this fight are the dead and their relations, and humanity at large.
The people killed on October 7 had families and friends who are raging for revenge.
Why do you empathize when Palestinians want revenge but whenever you see an Israeli raging about their people getting killed you don’t have any empathy?
The real end to this is when people stop being guided by hatred and revenge.
I do in fact have empathy for them as well. Hamas and Likud are both to blame for this, equally.
I’m no fan of Likud, but come on. Hamas went into villages and murdered nearly every man woman and child they could find. The rest they took to their underground lairs. All to start ground campaign in a populated area so there would inevitably be civilian casualties which they can monetize.
Netanyahu is an asshole and an incompetent (and corrupt) asshole at that. But you gotta keep it in perspective the absolute monstrosity of Hamas. I hope Netanyahu is voted out (and he likely will be) and his political career is completely dead. But Hamas isn’t going to voted out because they’re fascists that maintain power through violent intimidation. There is hope for Israel to change for the better through democracy. There isn’t all that much hope for Palestine because Hamas prevents Palestinian democracy from happening.
And Netanyahu let Hamas do this by intentionally weakening their border security before Oct 7, despite there being an anniversary of the last intifada, and despite being told by multiple countries that an attack is in the works. He also had a hand in funding Hamas against the PA. And he is also holding on to power undemocratically, as he is postponing an election he would most likely lose if not for the current “war”.
They have a symbiotic relationship, neither could really exist without the other. Just to be clear, what Hamas does does not justify what Likud does, and what Likud does does not justify what Hamas does.
Also, I don’t think I have the information to really cast either of them “the worse one”. Both organizations have genocidal maniacs leading them, and I agree with the ICC prosecutor who wants to cite the leadership of both for genocide. Saying one is worse would be relativizing the deaths of either the Israeli people murdered by Hamas, or the Palestinian civilians murdered by the IDF.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.
Also October 7 is going to result in the end of Netanyahu’s political career. You can’t be a strongman while also being unable to protect your people. So your conspiracy theory implies that Netanyahu wanted to end his own career. Like most conspiracy theories, it fails at explaining a reasonable motivation for it.
You’re right, maybe the more heavily armed side (hint it’s the one with the tanks) should stop being guided by hatred and revenge first. Since Hamas doesn’t have the capacity to wipe out Israel (despite their desire) there’s less risk to the IDF if they’re (the IDF) the ones to stop killing first than there would be to Hamas, were they to do likewise.
If Hamas didn’t take hostages there wouldn’t be tanks rolling around in Gaza right now. They took the hostages to force Israel into a ground campaign knowing it would maximize Palestinian civilian casualties. That is the goal of Hamas. The whole strategy of Hamas is to increase hatred because that’s what brings in the money and the recruits.
Israel doesn’t have those tanks because of their hatred. They have them to protect their civilian population. It’s just that there’s Israeli civilians in Gaza right now because Hamas took them there.
If Hamas didn’t take hostages there wouldn’t be tanks rolling around in Gaza right now.
Sure Jan.
Amazing how reportedly 0 combatants were killed while this rescue happened.
At least one IDF soldier was killed.
The Hamas dead isn’t counted separately from the civilians. Never have been. The casualty numbers you see reported is always civilians + Hamas.
Hamas doesn’t wear uniforms, so it’s difficult for a third party to make an assessment on how many combatants have been killed in this war. Also there’s a war happening, so that makes things difficult even when the combatants are all wearing uniforms.
how many had weapons?
Don’t check the serial numbers on the weapons tho 👉👈
They have weapons stashed all over the place so they can blend in with the civilian population when changing positions. Which is why they don’t wear uniforms.
Smart strategy… if you don’t have any concern for the lives of civilians. Which Hamas doesn’t.
No it’s a great strategy either way we just generally assume the other side isn’t jumping with glee to murder indiscriminately.
Yes Hamas wants the IDF to kill indiscriminately. It’s why they don’t wear uniforms. That’s the whole point of how they operate.
You’re missing the point. The general idea is that an modern organized army would not fire into civilians, you know morality being a thing and all. The IDF doing it anyway proves Hamas point, they’re not seen as people by the Israeli government anymore. You wouldn’t fire indiscriminately into a crowd a sheep to kill the wolf, why would you do the same with people.
The point you’re missing is that the tactics of Hamas has resulted in the IDF not being able to distinguish civilians from combatants. There’s a reason why non-uniformed combatants are considered differently (they’re basically just criminals) under international law than uniformed combatants. Because everyone knows when wars are fought by combatants who don’t wear uniforms, there’s a massive increase in civilian casualties.
You’re a 19 year old in a truck and someone is running towards you as fast as they can. You have seconds to determine whether that person is a civilian desperate to get food, or a combatant that’s running towards you to kill you. Both the civilians and the combatants are dressed in the exact same style of clothing. You’re scared and have seconds to make a decision that will either end someone else’s life or end your own life. What happens next?
You can’t understand why it’s criminal for combatants to not wear uniforms? If Hamas cared about their people they’d be wearing uniforms. But Hamas has successfully monetized the deaths of Palestinian civilians which is why they do what they do.
so the children were killed because…?
Because Hamas cowards deliberately fire at an enemy army for locations where there are children.
Oh, how terrible. If only someone could, I don’t know, return the remaining hostages and end this. Or stop hiding among civilians. But no,…
PS - downvote away, those who wish Hummus to continue endangering civilians.
PPS - “Your boos mean nothing. I’ve seen what makes you cheer.”
PS - downvote away, those who wish Hummus to continue endangering civilians.
Took a chance to be racist? Soo cool dude
I am sorry, but calling a fucking terrorist organization names is racist now?
did you even listen when your parents told you the story about the boy who cried wolf?
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So what’s an acceptable number of innocent people being murdered to recover other innocent people, in this instance four?
Is 100 acceptable? 1000? 10000? Everybody?
As per your P.S. How come you don’t see the same from the Israelis, they’re endangering civilians too?
What the IDF is doing is terroristic, as is what Hamas has done. So either you’re for terrorism or against it, you can’t say it’s ok for one side and not the other.
The fact is Israel is an apartheid state and they have been stealing land for decades. What would you do if you were a victim of this?
Furthermore, the hostages could have been returned many time with any one of the ceasefire deals on the table, but the Israeli government want blood not the hostages.
The acceptable number of Hamas-Voters is: as many as it takes.
Terrorism must not be rewarded. The gazans voted Hamas into power, they were celebrating on oct 7th. But now that they are the ones under attack, suddenly they don’t want to play anymore. But they obviously also don’t want to exchange the hostages!
When was the last vote and what is the average age. The majority of people alive never voted for Hamas.
So the people currently alive in Gaza don’t support Hamas and don’t want Hamas in power?
Then that’s all the more Reason to support Israel in overthrowing Hamas, no?
Israel isn’t overthrowing Hamas though. They’re actually empowering them by Netanyahu spending the last 17 years sidelining Palestinian moderates. Abbas offered to work with Netanyahu to actively fight Hamas but was turned down, because Netanyahu refused to work with Palestinians of any stripe.
That is 100% correct. But the Israelis hate Nettanyahu because they now realized his policies not insubstantially cause Oct 7th.
Nettanyahu will be impeached and removed democratically after all this is over. Hamas on the other hand can’t be removed democratically. They have to be removed with force. And right now, only the IDF can do that.
Actually no. Netanyahu may be unpopular but he’s been able to avoid elections for a year now.
And Hamas cannot be stopped militarily; killing all these civilians only makes more people support the group. What WOULD cause Hamas to lose support would be to empower moderates, but Netanyahu has spent the last 17 years undermining them and deligitimizing them, even arming Hamas so Palestinians would fight one another. Smotrich yesterday announcing he’s withholding Palestinian tax money to the PA only makes the PA look even weaker since even moderates are unacceptable to the Israeli government and will suffer under Israeli rule despite cooperating with them.
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Correct since they never voted for them.
If you think you can overthrow Hamas you’re insane. Israel have secured the next generation of sign ups by killing people’s entire fucking families.
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So next time there is a school shooting in america, and the shooter is hiding in the school, we can just bomb the school? I mean, the shooter could have just let the kids go or stop hiding among them. But no…
That’s not a great analogy. A great analogy would be if he kidnapped a kid and was hiding in a house full of school-shooters and we would bomb that house to save the kid.
In which case: Yes, that’s a good Idea.
Oh how terrible if only someone could, I don’t know, return all the stolen land back to the Palestinians and end this…
Also it’s incredibly fucking naive that you think hamas freeing their hostages would end this instead of just giving israel more reason to bomb indiscriminately.
