Most people do understand. This isn’t an awareness problem, it’s a power problem. Namely that the capitalist class has the power and the working class doesn’t[1][2].
Right. But it doesn’t matter that much that they’re fake problems because people believe in them, and act as if they’re real. So when asked “do you want to vote for nationalized health care / unions / whatever”, some people will say no because of these nonsense reasons.
Telling them it’s a false conscienceness isn’t going to convince them.
The main thing, maybe the only thing, that matters is emotion. And that means in-group over out-group. Facts and figures won’t overcome “OUT GROUP BAD”.
You’d have to get them to see the black/femme/whatever as part of their in-group, and that’s pretty hard.
I am sorry but i live in a country which is maybe not perfect, but which one is??? I see my taxes in action. Maybe not perfect in the way you imply, heck even as i would like. But corruption is not rempant where i live. It IS possible ;)
Thats literally been the argument I’ve had with people regarding universal healthcare. “But then people are going to just come over the border to use our healthcare”
Like motherfucker do you know how much work it is to immigrate and get government services? If they’re willing to go through all that they deserve the damn care anyways
I’ve had that argument presented to me and gone with “you would rather they suffer? Maybe die?”
If they’re nominally Christian it’s kind of an easy shot (good Samaritan, sheep and the goats), but I have to avoid making them feel like shit (because their position is shit and they deserve to feel bad). But by framing us as both believers in some of jesus’ teachings, they can see me as in-group and might actually listen. I’m not really a Christian scholar though so I’d probably lose an argument with someone who’s ready to bring down some prosperity gospel or actually knows any scripture.
Even without Christianity, engaging on “why should they suffer and die over the happenstance of their birth location? If the situation was reversed, what would you prefer happen to you?” Making it about them is usually a good move.
I hear the “why should I pay for them” from second or third generation immigrants where “them” refers to people from their own parents’/grandparents’ old country.
I’m a naturalized citizen and honestly? I couldn’t give a shit less if my tax dollars help out an illegal immigrant, and I’m really tired of rationalizing it to others.
Seriously. I would 1000x prefer my tax money to go to health care for literally anyone rather than it be used to turn children in a foreign land into skeletons and there seems to be plenty of budget to go around for that
Saw an article from a news agency lauded as defenders of democracy in my country, in which the author expressed her frustrations over “having to pay for” medical aid for the homeless and jobless.
Idk if that is present in USA or if racism supercedes it, but I’d say there’s also classism
I’m sorry but no. People are driven to out their frustration on whatever minorities or “people who abuse the system or whatever lies they are being told”. Thing is most common people are streched thin by the rule of our “civilized” societies and cannot afford spare brain time to really think. So i think maybe we talk about the same thing in the end…
Most people do understand. This isn’t an awareness problem, it’s a power problem. Namely that the capitalist class has the power and the working class doesn’t[1][2].
There’s also the racism. “I don’t want my tax dollars paying for no {racial slur} seeing a doctor!”
And the misogyny. “MY tax dollars shouldn’t pay for some {sexist slur} to {misunderstanding of sexual healthcare}”
Which I guess are both power problems, too.
Those are mostly fake problems to keep the working class fighting amongst themselves, to keep them in a state of false consciousness.
Right. But it doesn’t matter that much that they’re fake problems because people believe in them, and act as if they’re real. So when asked “do you want to vote for nationalized health care / unions / whatever”, some people will say no because of these nonsense reasons.
Telling them it’s a false conscienceness isn’t going to convince them.
The main thing, maybe the only thing, that matters is emotion. And that means in-group over out-group. Facts and figures won’t overcome “OUT GROUP BAD”.
You’d have to get them to see the black/femme/whatever as part of their in-group, and that’s pretty hard.
I am sorry but i live in a country which is maybe not perfect, but which one is??? I see my taxes in action. Maybe not perfect in the way you imply, heck even as i would like. But corruption is not rempant where i live. It IS possible ;)
Thats literally been the argument I’ve had with people regarding universal healthcare. “But then people are going to just come over the border to use our healthcare”
Like motherfucker do you know how much work it is to immigrate and get government services? If they’re willing to go through all that they deserve the damn care anyways
I’ve had that argument presented to me and gone with “you would rather they suffer? Maybe die?”
If they’re nominally Christian it’s kind of an easy shot (good Samaritan, sheep and the goats), but I have to avoid making them feel like shit (because their position is shit and they deserve to feel bad). But by framing us as both believers in some of jesus’ teachings, they can see me as in-group and might actually listen. I’m not really a Christian scholar though so I’d probably lose an argument with someone who’s ready to bring down some prosperity gospel or actually knows any scripture.
Even without Christianity, engaging on “why should they suffer and die over the happenstance of their birth location? If the situation was reversed, what would you prefer happen to you?” Making it about them is usually a good move.
“Well I’d go through the proper channels”
“Cool. Your asylum claim is denied. Now what?”
I hear the “why should I pay for them” from second or third generation immigrants where “them” refers to people from their own parents’/grandparents’ old country.
I’m a naturalized citizen and honestly? I couldn’t give a shit less if my tax dollars help out an illegal immigrant, and I’m really tired of rationalizing it to others.
Seriously. I would 1000x prefer my tax money to go to health care for literally anyone rather than it be used to turn children in a foreign land into skeletons and there seems to be plenty of budget to go around for that
Saw an article from a news agency lauded as defenders of democracy in my country, in which the author expressed her frustrations over “having to pay for” medical aid for the homeless and jobless.
Idk if that is present in USA or if racism supercedes it, but I’d say there’s also classism
I’m sorry but no. People are driven to out their frustration on whatever minorities or “people who abuse the system or whatever lies they are being told”. Thing is most common people are streched thin by the rule of our “civilized” societies and cannot afford spare brain time to really think. So i think maybe we talk about the same thing in the end…