okay. I’ve only seen stills of blue guy on a plate. How does this have any resemblance to the last supper? Is it just that there’s people at a long table? The more images I find the more concerned I am that christians have not seen a picture of the last supper.
It’s a well established historical fact that the last supper is the only time in history that people gathered around a table !
gathered around a table
Or at least gathered on one side of a table.
In Canada we call that a Degrassi.
Actually, the one time in history where this many people decidedly failed to gather around a table.
I always have to go to these stupid work lunches where someone hands their phone to the waiter and everyone has to lean in, like two dozen people at a long ass table so some idiot can email spam it the next day, like we all really wanted to be there.
I was hoping to find a video of the performance, since maybe it gave off more Last Supper vibes than a still photo. But I’ll be damned, there’s not a video of it anywhere. Just lots of videos of people complaining about it.
Have a look at this post: https://jlai.lu/post/9004279
Screenshots with timing to show the 2 moments people are confusing
Thanks, that was the context I needed. Also at 1:53:30 in that same video.
Seems to me that there’s a good reason none of the news articles are linking to the video of the performance. When viewed outside of a couple screenshots, it’s clear this ain’t shit.
Heavy copyright also. But this ain’t shit indeed.
Without the blue guy it did look a lot more like The Last Supper, though I didn’t really notice it when watching
it is funny how christians by and large do not follow the biblical holiday but totally do the cool pagan ones.
Especially Halloween. Where the fuck do they get off stealing the best and most very different from their own shit?
then they tack on all saints and all souls but nobody acknowledges them.
Mexicans have entered the chat, with deafening polka
Holy shit, do they ever acknowledge those holidays, but I think it’s because they already had a “day of the dead,” before they were forcibly converted to the teachings of Cathol.
yeah its more day of the dead and less all saints/souls. I think its just another good example on going with the cool pagan and not so much boring christian. let me see we can party and dress up or dress up and go to church. decisions, decisions.
I can tell by how I don’t even know what you’re talking about. 🤪
They only care about it when they can be angry and righteous about it. Don’t give them oxygen !
Which one is the biblical holiday?
both. there are like half a dozen mentioned in the bible as special sabbaths and the sabbath is technically a weekly holiday
The ones In. The Bible
What, that’s not common knowledge?
Btw, christmas was stolen from Yule. And some stories in the old testament are from Gilgamesh and Atrahasis Epos, like Mose’ abandonement in a reed basket as an example.
Literally all beings and concepts in christianity have a pagan origin. Even ancient YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah/Tetragrammaton (God) goes probably back to El.
But i guess that’s natural, concepts like an underworld are in above epics too, those sorts of stories developed over civilizations.
For sure, the ancient Israelites had a pantheon of gods, just like the Greeks. I mean, their monotheism developed out their own version paganism, of which Yahweh was but one of their gods. Specifically, the god of the storms that occurred in southern palestinian. He had a wife, multiple kids and a giant oversized novelty penis. Along with his god sized cock, he would often be represented as a bull, as a man with horns or a golden calf.
Why yes, theexact kind of golden calf the Israelites started to worship when moses when up mount sinai to get the 10 commandments. Its specifically the exact reason they did it and not that they just decided to worship some random cow, despite having seen a bag full of miracles and monstrous amounts of child murder from their actual god first hand.
Yup, the calf was most likely a regular part of the northern Israel’s worship, but not of the southern Judah’s. Since most of the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) is written from a Judean perspective (which makes sense; it survived longer), it treats it as blasphemous, when in reality, to them, it wasn’t.
What, that’s not common knowledge?
To the American Christians throwing a fit about this? No, they have no idea.
Like 4/5 of the Bible isn’t common knowledge to most Christians. To say nothing of the actual history of Christianity.
Btw, i googled ancient epics because i thought there was one more with similiar name to Atrahasis’ but my god, i know most of the names from Anime.
You would think it was common knowledge, especially given the fact that Hades is in the Bible but it’s not. They want to believe that they are the one true religion and do all sorts of mental gymnastics to keep their religion pure.
These are the same people that get mad when they uear Beethoven’s Ode to Joy because he doesn’t use the lyrics from the Christian hymn that stole his melody.
The same christians who got offended by this would also complain about muslims being prudish when they get pissy about showing their prophet.
For accuracy sake, yes the depiction in the Olympics was meant to be Feast of the Gods, but that painting came after The Last Supper and is thought to be directly inspired by da Vinci. Last Supper - 1495 Feast of the Gods - 1635-1640
Linking Wikipedia. The primaries appear to be in French 😅 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Festin_des_Dieux
People are talking about two different moments, 40 minutes from each other: https://jlai.lu/post/9004279
Sorry for the French, but the screens and minutes are there.
Don’t forget the people that are mad at this also get mad then they hear Beethoven’s Ode to Joy performed or translated because the lyrics aren’t the same as the Christian hymn that plagiarized his melody. They also get mad when they hear Greensleeves performed because those lyrics don’t line up with the Christian hymn that uses the same melody either.
This makes much more sene than Last Supper. Got a source on it actually suppised to be reannacment of this painting?
Not doubting you because I have eyes but some people migh be blinded by their christian goggles.
Got a source on it actually suppised to be reannacment of this painting?
The DJ in the center posted about it: https://jlai.lu/post/9004279
Also the post has screenshots about the two different moments, 40 minutes from each other.
Ok, I don’t speak French, but tried to translate using the new translator beta in Firefox. From what I understoon from the OP, they say it was in fact Last Supper and is making comparisons to it. This is somehow confirmed by DJ from all people?
In the comments of the linked post, there is a link to an article where the artistic director directly reacts and says it is not. That it was supposed to be an image of a pagan festival. He doesn’t cite inspirations, but it being the Feast of the Gods mentioned in the comment here is not too far fetched.
From the article, as translated by Firefox:
Was it the Last Supper? It was “not my inspiration,” replied Thomas Jolly. “I think it was quite clear, there’s Dionysus coming to this table. He’s here why? Because he is god of the feast…, of wine, and father of Sequana, goddess connected to the river.” “The idea was rather to make a great pagan festival connected to the gods of Olympus… Olympus… Olympism,” he continued.
deleted by creator
I think there are a large number of valid reasons to be confused by this image that do not have to do with Christianity.
Like, how do I get a job like that?
You start by making a number one hit song that is absolutely funny. You continue by making performance art. Then you combine both !
Apparently any time people are in a row on one end of a long table, it’s automatically a Last Supper reference.
It was literally a runway. Not sure how else they should have done it lol
FYI, for all of those shitting on Christians for “not being educated” and upvoting this, the last supper was painted in 1498, the feast of the gods was painted in 1635. Lol
The last supper has been painted many times. At least 1000 years before Leonardo’s version.
The festival of Dionysus occurred 500 years before Jesus with depictions much older than the last supper.
edit: ppl gettin’ mad over their sky wizard…
Maybe that’s the case, you don’t really back it up. But I’m just going off the paintings called out by Christians and the people claiming what it was actually inspired by.
But even if you’re right, it doesn’t change the fact that the OP and creator of this meme, and everyone thinking it makes a good point, are all guilty of the same ignorance they are laughing at someone else for having.
“…you don’t really back it up.”
Fuggin hilarious.
yeah huh, the bible says it is true. So it is true.
Maybe they mean that they didn’t back up that there were contemporary depictions which used imagery similar to Leonardo’s last supper. The contemporary imagery shows people having much more fun than just sitting around a table https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/57125c2c2b8dde54a34b537f/1619344351570-Q7SEO0H68PVKSK2MHIQW/painter-munich-black-cult-dionysus-figure-amphora-e1613417711405.jpg
My comment is pointing out the hilarity that top-level commenter is crying for “back up” after being called out for a comment that is:
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Not at all backed up
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Wrong
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An example of top-level commenter doing exactly what they accuse others of doing
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Wait you think they backed it up? Oh, well, none of what they said happened. So I guess I just backed up the counter position.
You need a citation proving that the Greeks had festivals in honor of one of their gods many years before Jesus was born? Um…here you go:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysia
The meme is stupid and inaccurate because the skit wasn’t representing any specific work of art but was meant to be representative of a Dionysia, aka a Feast of Dionysus. If we’re going to make fun of the people outraged about this, the stolen imagery angle just doesn’t make sense. Instead, maybe focus on their need to feel victimized or the amount of hubris required to assume that the opening ceremonies of an event rooted in Ancient Greek traditions was all about them.
But i digress. You, OP, and many other people seem confused because there is a long history of “Feast of the Gods” artwork. When you try to search for Feast of Dionysus, recommended searches suggest including the word “painting” which leads people to said artwork. That ends up leading you further away from Dionysia and onto tangentially related things like the painting you are referring to, “Le Festin des Dieux,” which was indeed painted from 1635-1640. However, there are many paintings with this theme that bear stylistic similarities to The Last Supper. One of the oldest examples was completed by Bartolomeo de Giovanni in 1490, 5 years before Leonardo began his Last Supper.
Examples here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feast_of_the_Gods_(art)
So anyway, maybe now you can all move on with your lives now.
Well stated. The thing bothers me is someone had a vision, they had an idea and a chance to present their work on a world stage. That is such a huge honor and a few people thought it was about them and shit all over the moment.
I’m not surprised you find reading this hard…
Its sad. Just full blast showing global problems with history education
As someone raised as a Mor[m]on, their response would be: the pantheons of pagan gods are just corruptions of the Gospel taught to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Thankfully, Joe Smith (not a couch banger, just a plain old pedophiliac serial rapist like any other good Christian leader) restored (made up) the lost parts of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
hums dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb
According to some ex-mormon lady on YouTube, one of her non-Mormon friends would quote/sing that at her when she would tell him about the beliefs of Mormonism, while they were in highschool. She didn’t catch what he was saying until after she left the church and saw that episode.
We can get more gnostic. We can go deeper. Actually, Adam and Eve are the corruptions of a still more authentic Gospel that’s been occluded from us.
☐ Ambient Occlusion
☒ Biblical Occlusion
I don’t think it counts as stealing- syncretism is present in virtually every faith that has contact with another faith, modern and ancient.
Christianity stole eating from the pagans.
Really wish they’d stop for 90-120 days
the abandoment is sorta wierd though. so xmass and easter but no celebration of the feast of booths or passover
Not religious any more, but got to do Passover dinner (Seder?) once in a messianic Jewish church as a kid. It was neat. Learned I like lamb and the bitter herbs were actually kind of good.
I’m Jewish. It’s a cool holiday in terms of ceremony, but you have to remember that it celebrates death. A lot of death. Especially child death. You even pour 10 drops of wine from the cup do represent the blood of the 10 plagues.
I’m proud of my heritage, but the religion is all manner of fucked up.
Angel of death and the firstborn unless you put blood over your door. It’s twisted stuff.
I’m proud of my heritage as well, but there’s some bad religion in there.
I have very little actual experience with Jewish things and culture. Y’all seem to be nice people, mostly. I’ve never understood the hate.
I think the hate is mostly an “other” thing. Same with any other minority really.
Eating babies is disgusting. There are Christian cults that practice baby eating rituals??
Yup. Sure are. I’m an atheist meat eater. Grew up in extreme evangelical Christianity in Alabama. I still hunt and fish. Go with love. Sorry you’re angry.
the what now
Lambs are baby sheep.
Oh. Then it’s one delicious ritual if you ask me. Lamb is tasty as hell.
At Last, Supper! Gah, I’ve been so hungry.
This meme is just confused. The Feast of the Gods motif would be familiar to da Vinci and whether it was deliberately referenced or perhaps just a visual convention of how to portray a feast, and who influenced who are questions best asked to an art historian specialized on the time period. But ultimately it doesn’t really matter - da Vinci’s The Last Supper is one of the most iconic images in history and it’s not strange that people watching makes the connection, I certainly did even if I also got the reference to Les Festin des Dieux. Of course the idea that the ceremony mocks Jesus or whatever is a hysterical reaction, but that’s American evangelicals for you.
Connecting this to christian adaptation of Pagan holidays and motifs, however, is farfetched and ahistorical. The Last Supper is a painting, Leonardo is not the christian church. Leonardo was active during the high renaissance, a time when the ideas and imagery of (mostly pagan) Antiquity was reintroduced into christian europe. References to pagan rome and greece was à la mode in art.
Connecting this to christian adaptation of Pagan holidays and motifs, however, is farfetched and ahistorical.
a time when the ideas and imagery of (mostly pagan) Antiquity was reintroduced into christian europe
It’s not like the Christian appropriation of non-christian things just ended sometime before the high renaissance. I’d argue it’s ongoing. And even if Leonardo did not appropriate, the Christians now reacting with fury to the depiction of “their” last supper are appropriating.
It’s not like the Christian appropriation of non-christian things just ended sometime before the high renaissance.
By that time, there were next to zero pagans left in western europe to appropriate from. The appropriation of pagan holidays and themes was mostly motivated by easing the conversion to christianity, so yes, it wasn’t really a thing after the conversion was complete. Local traditions and syncretism (saint worship etc) living on was mostly discouraged by the church so there is no appropriation argument to be made there either really.(The rest of the world is another issue; we’re talking pagan here, which specifically refers to european polytheistic traditions.)
I’d argue it’s ongoing.
Well, go ahead and argue. Isn’t the tendency of modern evangelicals rather to be scared out of their minds by any suggestion of heathendom, basically equating it to satanism? Jehovahs Witnesses for instance does not celebrate christmas for this very reason?
And even if Leonardo did not appropriate, the Christians now reacting with fury to the depiction of “their” last supper are appropriating.
Jan van Bijlert who painted Les Festin des Dieux was a christian… His depiction of Roman gods and entities are probably as accurate as The lion at Gripsholm Castle is to a real lion. And again, at the time there were no Roman Pagans alive to appropriate from, just as there are none today. You make no sense.
There are no pagans alive today?
Wew lad. Ignorant AF.Also why are you specifying only roman pagan? That’s completely non sensical.
It is blatantly obvious that a vast majority of the miracles and practices of Jesus was directly stolen from various pagan religions.
Christmas trees, stockings, winter solstice celebrations…hel even the days of the week are stolen from various pagan religions.
You’re simply wrong in so many ways with your post it’s funny Christians are so sensitive.
There are no pagans alive today?
Wew lad. Ignorant AF.There are more or less well informed re-enactments perhaps, but the connection to the pagan traditions relevant here (no, not only roman, but western european polytheistic traditions) were essentially completely severed by christianisation, industrialisation and modernity. There are small pockets in eastern europe and northern scandinavia where some traditions survived, barely. (A convincing argument could be made that modernity and industrialisation actually was a harder blow to lingering remnants of folk beliefs than the conversion to christianity, but that’s a discussion for another day.) I am very familiar with the historical sources, european folk beliefs and various neo-pagan movements, so I’m not making this argument out of ignorance. You may still think I’m wrong of course.
Also why are you specifying only roman pagan? That’s completely non sensical.
I’m not actually, but look at the meme again. The context of this discussion is imagery of roman deities from the european renaissance.
It is blatantly obvious that a vast majority of the miracles and practices of Jesus was directly stolen from various pagan religions. Christmas trees, stockings, winter solstice celebrations…hel even the days of the week are stolen from various pagan religions.
Yes, and so what? The argument made about the Olympic ceremony in the meme is still confused and inaccurate.
Edit: and you seem to believe I’m a Christian; I’m not.
You’d almost think this was a meme community and not concerned with things like historical accuracy in favor of amusing people, wouldn’t you?
That’s a pretty poor excuse since the meme makes a statement presented as factual that falls apart upon scrutiny. Without this connection, the meme is nothing.
Secondly, the meme isn’t actually funny, it just validates the previously held beliefs of this community. There is no joke, just a poorly argued “gotcha”. Validation feels good, but it’s not actually humor even if the two is often confused.
Careful talking shit to him, he’ll make it where you can’t post on the instances he’s a mod of. No abuse of power there…
It doesn’t fall apart on scrutiny you’re just too dense to understand it’s not about dates of paintings and Christianity is largely based on other religions beliefs that christianity literally appropriated.
Jesus wasn’t the first to walk on water or turn water into wine and he sure as hell wasn’t born in December.
Fine. The meme isn’t accurate to reality. What’s the meme trying to say then? Isn’t it only funny because “haha dumb Christians”? Doesn’t ignoring the actual facts lump us just as much in the ignorant group?
If it’s just a funny meme, and its accuracy isn’t what matters, then fine. But also, fine to the guy who is correcting the facts. They’re either both cool or neither cool.
If you’re making fun of people for not knowing history, it would be a good idea to not expose your own ignorance of history while doing so. It’s like screaming “look how much I’m like the people I hate!”
Nah, we know what was stolen and where from. This is accurate and just one example of how they take and distort from other religions and beliefs. Look at Christmas. They couldn’t get the pagan out of the people so they subverted it.
That… That’s what OP is saying…
It’s really not, but please do explain your line of reasoning.
Yahweh was actually the old god of the harvest and wine I believe. Before the Jewish Pantheon shrunk to one god only. So Yahweh was similar to Dionysus at one point. There are still remnants and mentions of the other gods in the old testament, like Yahweh’s wife Ashira and Baal who I think was an underworld god. Also funny that in the old testament, god talks about other gods as if they’re real but weak or bad, doesn’t deny they exist.
I recall Yahweh being described as a storm god, but gods often wear many hats. Storms can affect harvests a great deal.
The version I heard he was a war god and killed the rest of his pantheon, then forbade his followers from even speaking of the other gods. This may have been modern fanfiction though, i’ve never gone back to figure out where I read that from.
I don’t think that’s from anything official, but it’s a cool narrative to explain his ascension from polytheistic to monotheistic god! And it fits with how he acts in the bible.
Where’s Rick Riordan to novelize this!
I thought it was a water-source deity? At least 2 of us would make slightly worse christians lol.
Probably all of the above at one time or another.
I mean, literally all of you would be above par…
I saw that Yahweh could be a smith/fire god and became the most powerful deity because of the importance of the copper in the era.
Yahweh was a storm/raiding god fairly similar to, and later competing with and overtaking, Ba’al in the same domain but from the northwest (IIRC) semitic pantheon. The YouTube channel Esoterica has some great vids about it.
I remember a theory that Dionysus is the Christian god in disguise.
There’s also a theory about Loki being the same.
I don’t remember the details but these theories make more sense to me than the actual religions
To me it’s crazy that the Aztecs had a trickster god of mischief who would shape shift into a Fox. And across the planet we have Loki.
Many old religions were essentially created by mathematical scholars in the past who had similar ideas about shapes and symbolism. Some may disagree, but that’s what I think anyway.
Papa Smurfs birthday.
Yes clearly. And I can clearly see his balls too. So colorful!
I mean, they were almost essentially monochrome blue…considering what he’s the god of, he clearly needs to clean out the pipes…
This is very much talking about his system of maths.
